Automatic PreSoaks what works best??? Revisit

[pgrzes]

I know this has been a discussion over and over again. Been a little while. What works for you?? Low/Hi Or Hi/Low?? I am going to be changing over to a different chemical Co. and want to get your thoughts. I have tried both and it seems as though different times of the year Hi/Low works better then Low/Hi. Lets talk about it. Also what chemicals do you like? Thanks for any input.

 

[kentadel]

I use low/hi. Blendco chemicals, rhino-brite xxx followed with hph powder with presoak 2000.
Really like the results.

 

[rph9168]

I have always had a preference for low/high with as much dwell time as possible in between. Make sure that there is a thorough high pressure rinse so drying is not affected by high pH residue. I have seen it work high/low as well but I think low/high works best for all areas. Some say during bug season high/low does a better job which is possible since high pH products help clean soils containing protein.

 

[sparkey]

I am 2 passes of hi ph. I seemed to get less cleaning power going hi/lo or lo/hi.

 

[Waxman]

I use hi / hi. Simoniz correct powder, 50lb box with 1.6 gallons simoniz foam additive to make a very good 55 gal. drum of presoak for about $67. Beat that! ( thanks S.G.!)

 

[kentadel]

I use hi / hi. Simoniz correct powder, 50lb box with 1.6 gallons simoniz foam additive to make a very good 55 gal. drum of presoak for about $67. Beat that! ( thanks S.G.!)

Hi Waxman, I just received my order of correct powder and a 5 gal of foam additive. I will give it a try. Do you know the ounces per pass you use?

 

[Waxman]

Hi Waxman, I just received my order of correct powder and a 5 gal of foam additive. I will give it a try. Do you know the ounces per pass you use?

i use 10-15 oz per car

 

[soonermajic]

I use Correct, followed by Kleen Track A. Does a pretty solid job.

 

[mrfixit]

Just kinda depends on the season or road film composition. I prefer high low when I can run it that way, as it dries better and has less alkaline residue remaining on the surface and shines better. At other times have to go low high, usually when road film is more of a problem.. And when it gets tough I up the acid from the recommended 5; to 7 drops.

I am, and have been using ryko chemicals for a long time. It's really hard to tell a difference with other presoaks. The difference is marginal and ryko personally delivers.
I wanted to switch but really haven't found anything that really clearly shows much better road film and eyebrow removal on all vehicles. It's hard to tell. Conditions change a lot here in the Midwest and car to car is different soils it seems. I have one Chem company I wanted to switch to but considering all the work ryko does unloading on site and local distribution. I have been neglectant to change to a shipper company and deal with pallets and drums myself.

If anyone has experience with ryko and has a product that works better I'd like to know.

Oh my dwell times are long up to 32 seconds per pass at times - after the circuit completes. They say that you can count the application time as dwell too, in that case I've been as high as 1 minute, but 45 seconds total seems like enough typically. I just watch for drying or too much run off before next step is started. Obviously the thicker it's put on the longer you get a good dwell without too much run off. In the winter my dwells are reduced to around 15- 20, post application.

My First application is typically weaker due to undercarriage water on the car so that always dwells less than the second pass, due to runoff.

 

[msalvatore]

Which simoniz foam additive are you using?

Thanks

 

[mrfixit]

I don't know how you guys get past the base chalking with two base passes. I guess it's a product /soil/ conditions difference. It seems to intensify the eyebrow around here. It works great with the right conditions only here, then suddenly I get issues.

So no one can say that anything is better than ryko.?

 

[Waxman]

i don't get any chalking. there is some eyebrow but not too bad. i use a low ph for my foam polish and that seems to work real nice to prep the finish for the sealer wax because i get nice water break and drying action etc.

i think it's difficult to presicribe one type of presoak over a broad range of geography; it's a big country with all different types and degrees of road dirt, carbon soot, chimney and smoke stack soot, fallout, pollution, dirt roads, road salt, road construction, stone dust, cement dust etc.

 

[rph9168]

Waxman is right. There are so many different environments (temperature range, local pollutants, soil variations, water soures , ect.) around the country that there is no one presoak or detergent that works everywhere. Usually your local chemical guy will have a decent handle on it or if you buy and install your own chemicals it might take a little trial and error to find the right combination.

 

[mrfixit]

Yeah I understand it, there in lies the problem. You can't really say, every area of the country is different. Operators have to find out themselves, or put faith in the chemical company; complicates things a little.. So many chemical companies to choose from, each claims they have the solution.

I guess you just have to pick one and give it a go.. Test, review, and try to decern a difference. Ones man's trash could be another's treasure.

Now that you mentioned we have a lot of rail roads round here and it seems carbon soot kinda describes the road film on cars when it gets bad. Wipes off black on a white towel.. Do you know how to attack it? I assumed high acid but it still doesn't cut it. I do the best I can but want more.

And yeah I don't really get chalking, just you can tell it's base stuck on the road film at these times. Whatever the specific film I have is.

 

[rph9168]

Cars that come off rail cars that accumulate rail dust are usually given an acid bath to remove the dust. In extreme cases they clay bar the vehicle. You should not have enough rail dust to justify either treatment. If you think you have that problem an acid presoak should help. If you have a touch free wash make sure their is a high pressure rinse somewhere in the wash. If you have friction make sure you have a shampoo with good lubricity.

I wouldn't assume that black towels mean you have rail dust. Could be abraded asphalt or concrete as well as the various oil residues found on most roads. If that is the case you might try a presoak that contains some form of distilled or natural solvent like d'limonene. Ever notice all those discarded cigarette and cigar butts at an intersection? Ashes from those usually end up on the sides and windshield of a vehicle as well. While road soils differ from area to area as well as from an urban or rural setting these are some of the most common elements in the concoction known as road film. As you suggest trial and error is probably your best choice if you don't want to deal with a local chemical guy with some successful experience in your area. Choose what you are most comfortable with that satisfies your need for a clean dry vehicle.

 

[HCW]

Our LW4000 install is near completion and the PDQ installer is suggesting to add an acid based presoak, we've used the alkaline based scotch plaid presoak on our monsoon before and it did a great job. It was suggested to apply acid based presoak on the first pass let it dwell then follow it up with alkaline based presoak. Is it worth trying or should we stick with the two alkaline based scotch plaid presoak?

 

[Greg Pack]

Our LW4000 install is near completion and the PDQ installer is suggesting to add an acid based presoak, we've used the alkaline based scotch plaid presoak on our monsoon before and it did a great job. It was suggested to apply acid based presoak on the first pass let it dwell then follow it up with alkaline based presoak. Is it worth trying or should we stick with the two alkaline based scotch plaid presoak?

I think you'll just have to experiment. It will depend on local conditions. With a low ph first step, you may see better glass, better drying, and shiner chrome. But you may be compromising paint cleaning You may have to increase the strength of your high PH to help counteract.

 

[mrfixit]

I wouldn't assume that black towels mean you have rail dust. Could be abraded asphalt or concrete as well as the various oil residues found on most roads. If that is the case you might try a presoak that contains some form of distilled or natural solvent like d'limonene. Ever notice all those discarded cigarette and cigar butts at an intersection? Ashes from those usually end up on the sides and windshield of a vehicle as well. While road soils differ from area to area as well as from an urban or rural setting these are some of the most common elements in the concoction known as road film. As you suggest trial and error is probably your best choice if you don't want to deal with a local chemical guy with some successful experience in your area. Choose what you are most comfortable with that satisfies your need for a clean dry vehicle.

Thanks for the insight!

You may be onto something.. I'm two step A B and I've tried everything with the chemicals I have, if I want any better results I'm going to need different soap basically... What is in these I know doesn't cut it and I don't believe there are any solvents in it.

Just tried upping the acid much higher than normal. Titration from 5 up to 8-9. Cars look better.. Not sure what is considered the max with acid pass? What is the threshold to measure with acids, a certain pH? 2.5 I've heard? I've always stayed closer to the recommended 5 drops. But there is the rocker panel blaster that gets the car wet before the acid is applied.

The film is really only on the top of the car, the sides dont show really any film.. So I belive it's something falling out of the air and laying on top of the car and then getting set on the surface with the dew in the am. That's my theory at least.

My current suppliers solution is a friction machine.. That's not gonna happen right now... so I need better chemicals.

I have a product that has "successful results". Just that's not good enough. My expectations are pretty high. Thought there may be a company that is considered the best and has solutions for a range of sites. There's a lot of them out there.

 

[Waxman]

you're not going to find any magic bullet. you are setting your expectations too high.

we offer a d.i.y. prep bucket and d.i.y. towel dry. between those two things and dumping the soap on as heavy as i can (simoniz correct powder / foam additive mix), we get the car plenty clean.

touch free washes leave some film. many conveyorized autos hand prep and hand finish to get the best car.

many friction rollovers have some weak areas of cleaning.

the other washes don't lose sleep over their weak points so why should you?

the only 'perfect' wash is self serve!

 

[mrfixit]

All good points Warman, thanks for the advice... I understand all have their faults just want to be sure I'm doing the best I can. I guess let the numbers speak for themselves. Numbers mean I'm doing something right.

So I possibly won't get much better results than I'm getting currently... I have a limited pool of customers and just want to improve profit by either bringing more customers by giving better cars, or saving with chemical costs providing same or better results for less. ie. kleenrite which seems to have a lot going for it in both categories.. I really wonder how your "buffed" cars look compared to mine.

The acid seems to give me the buffed look. Especially if applied in Second step instead of first.

It just seems like if I could find out exactly what this film is I could apply the proper chemical to work better on it rather than a one size fits all presoak. You know..