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Unlimited washing for self serve?
- Thread starter Jerry
- Start date
tdlconceptsllc
Well-known member
Only thing simular I can think of is a gated SS wash with a
set price and 1 point of entry/paystation & wash and vac all you want once you paid and entered.
set price and 1 point of entry/paystation & wash and vac all you want once you paid and entered.
PaulLovesJamie
rural 5 bay SS
This was discussed ad nauseum a decade or 2 ago, lots of locations implemented it.
My conclusion (from reading/talking, I did not implement it) is that it is a good technique for an underperforming wash, otherwise not a good idea.
search on WALAYW - wash as long as you want. There are a couple other acronyms to search on, I cant remember them.
My conclusion (from reading/talking, I did not implement it) is that it is a good technique for an underperforming wash, otherwise not a good idea.
search on WALAYW - wash as long as you want. There are a couple other acronyms to search on, I cant remember them.
So Jerry, are you proposing a monthly pay subscription and RFID readers at a gated site for customers? I don't directly know anyone that does this, but some operators who have both tunnels and self serves in the same market I believe are including the SS site with their monthly subscriptions.
What monthly fee do you propose?
What monthly fee do you propose?
Greg, I am proposing a self serve monthly pay subscription that can stand on its own without any help from a tunnels monthly membership program.
I am not proposing a gated site or rfid readers.
The technology solutions needed without rfid are/should be available.
The price points would be on par as to provide the most value for the customer. I’m kicking around a $10 flat monthly recurring fee for unlimited use.
I am not proposing a gated site or rfid readers.
The technology solutions needed without rfid are/should be available.
The price points would be on par as to provide the most value for the customer. I’m kicking around a $10 flat monthly recurring fee for unlimited use.
I have talked to a few people about this over the last couple years. I was thinking as RFID tech gets more prominent, you would think costs would come down. If you could place rfid readers on each vacuum, bay and iba then why not an unlimited package for all equipment? Vending excluded. Maybe Self Serve only, iba not included? Just like credit cards in bays & vacs if you dont have them you ARE losing money. Any way we can make it easier and more convenient for people the more they spend. Yes credit cards cost me money in fees, but on the flip side, I dont have to sort it, count it, take it to bank, etc. I would love to have the automatic monthly revenue for subscription services, but with ibs's dont see it as a viable option, I can see it on the self serve side though?? Thoughts?
GoBuckeyes
Self-Serve and Automatics
$10/month unlimited use in your self serve?! I hope you sign up 1000’s of people, which I don’t see happening. Otherwise, good luck making money with that.
Care to elaborate why I would need 1000s of customers to make money?
GoBuckeyes
Self-Serve and Automatics
You know what...I started writing a long reply as to why it wouldn’t work and came to the conclusion that it’s an interesting concept. I won’t say I stand corrected but I am intrigued. I believe there are a lot more unknowns in the self serve market than the tunnel market, namely customer frequency. Whereas the tunnel market has an idea of the average ticket price, average customer frequency before unlimited, average redemption of unlimited plans....are there any such statistics for self serves? I have no way of knowing how many unique customers I have at my self serves or the average ticket. Would the wash be a mix of pay as you wash and unlimited or solely unlimited?
The self serve would be a mix of pay as you go and unlimited. I would welcome both customers.
I can’t believe the washing metrics for a tunnel wash would be much different then the metrics for an IBA or a self serve. The average customer only washes so many times a year. Why would they wash more on average in a self serve vs a tunnel?
My self serve software has a bunch of reporting and I know exactly how many transactions I have and how much revenue I generate so average ticket price isn’t a great unknown to me.
I agree self serve unlimited is more of an unknown, but only bc no one is doing it, not bc of the dynamics of the unlimited concept.
I can’t believe the washing metrics for a tunnel wash would be much different then the metrics for an IBA or a self serve. The average customer only washes so many times a year. Why would they wash more on average in a self serve vs a tunnel?
My self serve software has a bunch of reporting and I know exactly how many transactions I have and how much revenue I generate so average ticket price isn’t a great unknown to me.
I agree self serve unlimited is more of an unknown, but only bc no one is doing it, not bc of the dynamics of the unlimited concept.
chaz
Active member
S/s unlimited .... I’d imagine the unlimited customer could tie up the bay for an extended time period .... real problem on busy day when a cash customer is waiting and the prepaid guy takes his time doing a full detail. My policy is “if the timer is not running, you must exit the bay when others are waiting” I imagine it would be hard to tell the unlimited guy he has to exit the bay...then again, I guess he’d keep the meter running so he’d be ok?! I don’t operate a tunnel....but I guess partly why unlimited works is the wash time is a non variable, plus the unlimited guy likely comes during slower times so as not to wait in q?
soapy
Senior Member
The cost of using a rfid type system on a SS by could be a large barrier. From my research it cost between 10K to 20K to add it to a existing auto cashier. You would probably have a higher cost per bay to add it to a ss bay. Alternative methods might be needed. If you already have Credit card readers in the bay you might be able to find a company that would control a credit card system so you could issue a gift card that only worked at your facility by making it good only at your wash for your CC merchant number. That plan sounds simple but I have tried to find a company for over 10 years to do it. The problem with a credit card based system would be multiple cars could use it.
I see both cost and potential abuse as a problem for an RFID in an ungated model. If its gated you can control the entry point and ensure the RFID is properly read before entry is allowed. In an ungated model the customers' buddies can't pull up next to a RFID vac and use it while the member is wiping down his interior on the other side of the vac island, so that is going to have to be addressed.
I would be more interested in a 19.95 unlimited wash price. But planet fitness makes a ton of money off $10/month customers that rarely walk in the doors.
I like the gated model better for unlimited customers. In my mind, ungated with RFID has the disadvantages of both business models.
I would be more interested in a 19.95 unlimited wash price. But planet fitness makes a ton of money off $10/month customers that rarely walk in the doors.
I like the gated model better for unlimited customers. In my mind, ungated with RFID has the disadvantages of both business models.
robert roman
Bob Roman
“I can’t believe the washing metrics for a tunnel wash would be much different then the metrics for an IBA or a self serve.”
There are differences in both operating expenses and target market.
“The self serve would be a mix of pay as you go and unlimited.”
Mixing create problems. One is less cost control. For example, some product cost pennies an ounce and some $0.25 an ounce. As mentioned, there would be potential for conflict - two different user types vying for same space – and no referee on site.
To paraphrase, not proposing a gated site or RFID, other technology should be available.
Problem with this hope is demand for product. What OEM is going to dump existing product line for new way of washing? For instance, experience has show POP can work for self-serve but I don’t know of any OEM’s that have created a new product line for sale in catalog.
As for price, several years ago, Ken Brott, with DRB at that time, proposed $100 per year for annual subscription to members-only carwash (conveyor).
“I hope you sign up 1000’s of people, which I don’t see happening.”
Divide average self-serve total fixed cost by $100 is 720 individuals. This would equal a take rate of between 9 and 10 percent of typical customer base. Considering range for conveyor is 4 to 8 percent, this would be a stretch for self-serve. Moreover, now that most loyal customers are tied to program, profit depends on the less valuable ones.
I believe I’ve come up with a way to get around this with existing technology. I’m working with someone that is considering it. I’ll let you know how it works out.
There are differences in both operating expenses and target market.
“The self serve would be a mix of pay as you go and unlimited.”
Mixing create problems. One is less cost control. For example, some product cost pennies an ounce and some $0.25 an ounce. As mentioned, there would be potential for conflict - two different user types vying for same space – and no referee on site.
To paraphrase, not proposing a gated site or RFID, other technology should be available.
Problem with this hope is demand for product. What OEM is going to dump existing product line for new way of washing? For instance, experience has show POP can work for self-serve but I don’t know of any OEM’s that have created a new product line for sale in catalog.
As for price, several years ago, Ken Brott, with DRB at that time, proposed $100 per year for annual subscription to members-only carwash (conveyor).
“I hope you sign up 1000’s of people, which I don’t see happening.”
Divide average self-serve total fixed cost by $100 is 720 individuals. This would equal a take rate of between 9 and 10 percent of typical customer base. Considering range for conveyor is 4 to 8 percent, this would be a stretch for self-serve. Moreover, now that most loyal customers are tied to program, profit depends on the less valuable ones.
I believe I’ve come up with a way to get around this with existing technology. I’m working with someone that is considering it. I’ll let you know how it works out.
Cost for a RFID model is surely a concern, but I'm not proposing that model. Also, gated keeps the pay as you go washers away which I would not be interested in doing.
I look at abuse a bit differently. Sure, no one wants to give anything away for free but to completely nix the idea over a few bad apples is short sighted. I have a few dozen unlimited tunnel customers who literally wash 10+ times a month. Annoying? yes. But the unlimited program is still predicated on making lots of money off of the totality of the members not a snap shot of these relative few abusers. That would be like stepping over dollars to pick up nickels.
Another way to look at it is with Netflix. Everyone shares their netflix account with someone. Can you imagine Netflix focusing on the 'few' bad apples when their model makes so much sense?
a $20 self serve price point will not work bc there is zero value for the customer at $20 per month. That customer needs to wash 7 times at $3 JUST to save a dollar. The masses do not wash 7 times a month and the masses are what you need to have a successful recurring membership model a la Planet Fitness. They'll always be people that will pay $20/month to wash their own car, just not enough of them.
This would be a minor problem as well. But really, how many days is your self serve that busy that you have to police the customers, 10 a year and maybe for an hour here or there a few more times? just bc they have the privilege of being a member, doesnt mean they still don't have to abide by all of your rules for tying up a bay.
Members do self level themselves in a tunnel. They will not wait on a busy saturday but come another day like tuesday when it's slower. Which is another nice win-win of having a membership that consultants rarely speak of. I don't know if the self serve market would also switch days to a slower weekday but I would guess yes as i never ever go to Costco on a saturday(prolly bc I'm always working
Eric H
Well-known member
Back in the early 2000's there were several companies that were offering "Key" sytems. I have the origional Express Key system at 1 wash that I use for billable accounts only, no cash keys. i send the bill every month and as long as the business pays they get to use the carwash.
Ginsan bought the ExpressKey company from Shad Brandt and then changed the entire system. There were some other companies doing similar systems but I cannot remember the names. One was a guy named Jeff North from Vermont.
I think there was a lot of potential with these systems but when CC acceptence came around the companies seemed to disappear.
I wonder if the ability to sell unlimited programs already exists in one of these old systems?
L
loewem
Guest
Interesting thread. Seems that the only way to figure this out is to give it a try and tweak it from there. You don't know until you try it. You might consider coming up with an agreement that will allow you to revoke the unlimited plan for certain people/circumstances. Some examples that come to mind....customers using it for multiple cars, landscapers using it every day to clean up their equipment and leave you a mess, contractors cleaning up equipment and truck beds, teenagers with four wheel drive vehicles.....dirt bikes....atv.
A personal thought is that I don't like the unlimited plans that exist or most any service that automatically charges my card/a card. I think that all of these are designed for the benefit of the business. I think it was mentioned that unlimited wash plans are predicated on signing up a large number of customers to make a lot of money. I'm in business to make money, but I want to do it while giving each and every customer what they pay for. Unlimited wash seems designed to make a lot of money by giving some customers what they pay for and many customers less than they pay for (planet fitness $10 per month for customers that never walk through the door). Some customers will make a point of getting more than they paid for even if they have to go out of their way to do it. In the end, seems that the only way to make a lot of money off of unlimited wash is maximize the group that gets less than they pay for while minimizing those that get what they pay for and more than they pay for.
A personal thought is that I don't like the unlimited plans that exist or most any service that automatically charges my card/a card. I think that all of these are designed for the benefit of the business. I think it was mentioned that unlimited wash plans are predicated on signing up a large number of customers to make a lot of money. I'm in business to make money, but I want to do it while giving each and every customer what they pay for. Unlimited wash seems designed to make a lot of money by giving some customers what they pay for and many customers less than they pay for (planet fitness $10 per month for customers that never walk through the door). Some customers will make a point of getting more than they paid for even if they have to go out of their way to do it. In the end, seems that the only way to make a lot of money off of unlimited wash is maximize the group that gets less than they pay for while minimizing those that get what they pay for and more than they pay for.
robert roman
Bob Roman
Transaction value of mobile POS payment is expected to have annual growth rate (CAGR 2018-2022) of 35.7%. Between 2012 and 2017, subscription business revenue grew eight times faster than S&P 500 (17.6% versus 2.2%). 80 to 90 percent of new washes have subscription program.
Arguably, there would be something for self-serve operators to gain by jumping on the bandwagon rather than chasing after it and falling further behind.
Again, consider Ken Brott’s idea for members-only wash. This means only members are allowed to use the wash, must pre-pay first.
Members pay “one-time” annual fee of $100. Good for one vehicle only. Can be open 24 hours but preferably 16 hours a day, 7-days a week. Based on fixed cost of $74,000, 2,000 members would generate profit of $108,000. Math is average price of $2.78 per unit. Key is unit average variable cost. Here, it was $0.25 per wash. If it’s $0.50, profit is $90,000. Some attributes are no cash on site, no deposits. No more cheapskates or loitering, less vandalism and dumping. No attendant required.
In atypical market, 2,000 members is about 7 percent share. Most retailers expect to capture at least 10 percent of local market and trade area dominant 25 percent or more. So, more than 2,000 members should be possible in many markets. Of course, it sure is a different way of operating a self-serve wash.
Arguably, there would be something for self-serve operators to gain by jumping on the bandwagon rather than chasing after it and falling further behind.
Again, consider Ken Brott’s idea for members-only wash. This means only members are allowed to use the wash, must pre-pay first.
Members pay “one-time” annual fee of $100. Good for one vehicle only. Can be open 24 hours but preferably 16 hours a day, 7-days a week. Based on fixed cost of $74,000, 2,000 members would generate profit of $108,000. Math is average price of $2.78 per unit. Key is unit average variable cost. Here, it was $0.25 per wash. If it’s $0.50, profit is $90,000. Some attributes are no cash on site, no deposits. No more cheapskates or loitering, less vandalism and dumping. No attendant required.
In atypical market, 2,000 members is about 7 percent share. Most retailers expect to capture at least 10 percent of local market and trade area dominant 25 percent or more. So, more than 2,000 members should be possible in many markets. Of course, it sure is a different way of operating a self-serve wash.
