Have an old hydrospray system

[Dan kamsickas]

@MEP001 @Dan kamsickas @Randy @anybody really

We don't do direct financing. It's a minefield. I don't believe any manufacturer does direct financing. I can get you quotes on equipment.

 

[MEP001]

my bay 2 pump decided to crack in the body

It probably threw a rod. That can still happen with new equipment if it runs low on oil.

I'm trying to get to a point where I can build equipment again, but there's no way I can finance.

 

[Randy]

I hate to say this but new equipment breaks down alot more than you'd think. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's not going to break down. My 42 year old wash equipment works just as well as it did when it was installed if not better. All you have to do is maintain it and it'll take care of you.

 

[goodingcarwash]

There's no reason for the timed hot to come back into the room. Timed hot needs to go straight to the rotary switch inputs, jumpered to inputs 11 and 21 (8 position) or 10 and 20 (10 position).

You don't connect anything "all together," each individual line from the switch needs to connect separately to each wire out to the solenoids. You're just going to remove the bank of green relays and connect the wire from the bay to the wire to the solenoids. The spot free is going to need something to isolate the bays, the rest do not.

A1 and A2 on the contactor are the power in for the contactor coil, but you need to run it through the thermal overload. It's most likely already wired where the power from the bay will go in at A1 and the common to the normally closed side of the thermal overload (marked as 96) with a jumper wire going from 95 to A2 on the contactor.

Here's my pictures again where you can see I removed the banks of relays and used terminal strips to make the connections:

View attachment 8550

View attachment 8551

I'm in a similar boat only I purchased my pump stand used. 05 I believe. I got the meter box doors also but wires just cut at both ends. I don't think anything is wrong with it but I've begun reverse engineering it to figure out how to wire everything up. Do you still recommend gutting the plcs and nodes? Removing the complex computer management and going to a simple setup? What was the purpose of the plc and nodes? I notice 3 cat cables labeled main controller. Was the a remote program that could run everything? As far as you talked about the multiplex or relays is that just say to isolate functions in a similar way to 2 or 3 stack rotorary switches? I like the idea but want to know whats im losing by deleting most of the box. There had to be some advantage to it right?

 

[Fatboy769]

@goodingcarwash , Mep passed away back in October.

 

[cantbreak80]

Beyond fulfilling the developer’s dreams, the PLC:

• Inputs can be on/off time delayed.
• Provide outputs to multiple devices (solenoids/motor starters/water heaters, temperature-controlled circulating pumps, weep systems, etc.)
• Provides operator settings for price-to-start & bay timing. The coin box “message center” is just a display, eliminating the typical Dixmor, Timemaster, IDX bay timer.
• Provides operation data…bay function usage, coin counts for each bay.
• Integration with HS’s Rainmaker or Cobra touchless in-bay automatics.

Systems were available with MMI touchscreen and/or desktop computer for programming, monitoring, and remote control.

Because PLCs are 24vDC powered, the nodes power the green Phoenix relay coils to provide the necessary 24vAC output power for all solenoids, contactors, motor starters. So, there’s a DC power supply AND a 24v transformer.

The Cat5 cables provide network communication between the PLC processor and the I/O modules.

With very expensive components it’s definitely not a K.I.S.S system.
I love it!

 

[Greg Pack]

Holy Cow, Way over-engineered and intimidating to a potential buyer. I vote rip it all out and use conventional wiring/components. If kleen rite or Dultmeier doesn't sell it don't use it unless you have no choice. A used pumping unit from another manufacturer for cheap might be a better option

 

[goodingcarwash]

Yeah I opted to rip most of it out. It will be pretty straight forward that way. Luckily the nodes were all wired in the same order so I only need to trace one bay and got the wiring lables for the rest of the solenoid. Waiting for din mount terminal splicers and to slip the pumps and motors back on the stand. Overall I think its going to be a great pump stand now.
I got a 24 pack of paint pins off Amazon, is there any kind of standard color code?

 

[goodingcarwash]

Beyond fulfilling the developer’s dreams, the PLC:

• Inputs can be on/off time delayed.
• Provide outputs to multiple devices (solenoids/motor starters/water heaters, temperature-controlled circulating pumps, weep systems, etc.)
• Provides operator settings for price-to-start & bay timing. The coin box “message center” is just a display, eliminating the typical Dixmor, Timemaster, IDX bay timer.
• Provides operation data…bay function usage, coin counts for each bay.
• Integration with HS’s Rainmaker or Cobra touchless in-bay automatics.

Systems were available with MMI touchscreen and/or desktop computer for programming, monitoring, and remote control.

Because PLCs are 24vDC powered, the nodes power the green Phoenix relay coils to provide the necessary 24vAC output power for all solenoids, contactors, motor starters. So, there’s a DC power supply AND a 24v transformer.

The Cat5 cables provide network communication between the PLC processor and the I/O modules.

With very expensive components it’s definitely not a K.I.S.S system.
I love it!

I just wanted to acknowledge this well explained response. It was very helpful and right on point. Thankyou very much!

 

[sparkey]

As someone who programs plc's for a living I would love a plc wired system. I have actually removed a lot of the relay logic from my washes and changed it over to a plc. You can change the entire operation of how your wash works without changing a single wire. You can have data collection of any type of data you want. You could do remote monitoring and reset faults remotely. The possibilities are endless. Of course you would need to purchase the software to be able to edit the program.

 

[2Biz]

As someone who programs plc's for a living I would love a plc wired system. I have actually removed a lot of the relay logic from my washes and changed it over to a plc. You can change the entire operation of how your wash works without changing a single wire. You can have data collection of any type of data you want. You could do remote monitoring and reset faults remotely. The possibilities are endless. Of course you would need to purchase the software to be able to edit the program.

I agree to a point, but you and a few others are 99.9% "Not" the norm in this business OR someone looking to buy! I have three PLC's running washer fluid winterizing systems and my lighting system that interacts with bay timers. I will want to sell the CW one of these years. Is it going to be too complex for many or most potential buyers? It can be pretty intimidating!

 

[OurTown]

I agree to a point, but you and a few others are 99.9% "Not" the norm in this business OR someone looking to buy! I have three PLC's running washer fluid winterizing systems and my lighting system that interacts with bay timers. I will want to sell the CW one of these years. Is it going to be too complex for many or most potential buyers? It can be pretty intimidating!

You could write an instruction manual.

 

[cantbreak80]

Is it going to be too complex for many or most potential buyers? It can be pretty intimidating!

You could write an instruction manual.

You mean like this?

 

[goodingcarwash]

As someone who programs plc's for a living I would love a plc wired system. I have actually removed a lot of the relay logic from my washes and changed it over to a plc. You can change the entire operation of how your wash works without changing a single wire. You can have data collection of any type of data you want. You could do remote monitoring and reset faults remotely. The possibilities are endless. Of course you would need to purchase the software to be able to edit the program.

I agree on paper I love the idea, but replace you with I lol. I don't have time to get a degree in plc programming. And are the plcs going to save enough to cover potential down time. Both diag and repair? Think if the foam brush isn't coming on, you grab your multimeter check the relay the solenoid the rotary switch find out after an hr that the plc has failed. How long will it take to get a new plc, program it, replace it and check it. A relay goes down it can bypassed or replaced in minutes. Not to mention supply shortages, chip shortages, and shipping time. When down time has huge consequences features and conveniences take a back burner to reliability and simplicity. As much as I love highly sophisticated feature rich, I also love simple mecanical cleaver solutions I can walk through in my head. For example I put a keyed switch to bypass the meter for a local shop charging 200$ a month for unlimited use. Super simple and actually very useful in diagnostic. I can turn the key and rule out the meter and coin exceptor.

 

[goodingcarwash]

And ill have 5 plc and a stack of relays up for grabs if you want em. The other note is and I could be wrong but there isn't a standard open source standard programming among all plcs. If there was it would be a whole different story. If a company capitalized on it and offered a pre programmed plc with labled inputs and output pnp for us it would be a different story.

 

[goodingcarwash]

What is a timer or coin acceptor or bill acceptor or button rotary or matrix but a preprogrammed plc?

 

[Kyle1]

@goodingcarwash , Mep passed away back in October.

WHHHHHAAAATTT?!?!?!