Methanol Foam Brush Soap

[Kidwash]

For those who have had experience using Methanol Foam Brush solution during the winter months please provide me your thoughts/recommendations:

Understand that the biggest advantage is gas & water savings as a result of shutting down the trickle?

Is the quality better or worse?
What problems have you or your customers had with it?
Does it really work and at what temps? Does it freeze?
Which brand do you recommend?
Is more foam brush solution used than normal?
Would you use it again and why?

Thanks
Kidwash

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Biggest advantage to me is that the brush heads dont freeze in the bays.
Quality is the same.

I rigged my hydrominder with 3 tips, and as the temp drops outside I increase the concentration. I'm not anal about it though, if the temp varies I just use the stronger concentration. But if I know its going to stay over 20 for a few days, I switch over to a weaker concentration.

Yes I'll use it again. I'm not far from kleen rite, so I'll be driving out there in a few weeks to buy a couple 55 gal drums of their brand. Normally 2 drums gets me thru a winter, maybe 3.

 

[Sequoia]

Methanol

Two winters ago, I tried switching to a "winter formula" soap made by a major provider. It was a methanol-based solution.

I wasn't happy with the results. The viscosity of the "winter formula" was so different from my normal soap that I had lots of trouble getting everything recalibrated to flow correctly.

I've since learned to buy straight methanol from a chemical supply house, and add it to my regular soap. That way, I don't have to change buckets, soap products, etc. And I can control how much methanol I add compared to the amount of soap. Doing this made it much easier on me when migrating from Fall to Winter.

I found that 1 gal of methanol mixed in 5 gals of soap is about right for me, but I'm not in a very harsh winter climate. Cold climates would probably need more.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I am in Chicago and use the Kleen Rite Methanol soap. You use more than with the regular soap since you need to increase the concentration when it gets colder.

I am some what of a newbie and didn't even know the stuff existed my first winter. The next winter was much better.

So, do I turn the weep off to the foam brush when I use this stuff?

 

[soapy]

I make my own methenol soap using the following method. I buy 1 55 gallon drum of methenol and drain 10 gallons of methenol out of the barrel. I then add between 5 to 10 gallons of foam brush soap concentrate to the 55 gallon drum. I then use this barrel to draw from through a hydrominder. A 10% solution of methenol mixed with water is good for a freeze point of 25 degrees, a 20% solution is good for 10 degrees and a 30% is good to 0 degrees. Usually with methenol soap the foam will not be as thick but still works fine. Since it tends to get very cold here most of the time I run my hydrominder with no tip installed and that gives me about a 10 degree rating. Most people don't wash with the foamy brush when it gets any colder than that.

 

[Reds]

I use Warsaw winter foam. I use a grey hydrominder tip for winter foam so it uses a lot more than the "summer foam". It foams nice and the customers like it. Customers don't use the foam brush as much during the winter, but it does get used often enough to justify using the winter foam. I have had it working in temps down to 10 below zero with a hard wind that almost always blows thru my bays. My biggest problem has been not switching to winter foam early enough and the "summer foam" freezing up in the hoses & boom. I am switching to winter foam this week and will stay with it until April.

 

[Earl Weiss]

OK, Anyone.

Do you not ned to weep when using Methanol Soap in the Foam Brush?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

OK, Anyone.

Do you not ned to weep when using Methanol Soap in the Foam Brush?

I've never heard of anyone doing both, it's an either/or thing. BTW, I use the methanol soap.

 

[DavidM]

With menthanol you do not need to weep your foam brush. One word of caution though, be sure to purge the summer formula out of the lines before freezing temperatures arrive.

Systems are available that automatically switch back and forth between formulas based on temperature and purge the lines as needed. The advantage is that when it warms up, you automatically switch to summer solution which is cheaper to use.

David

 

[Ben Smith]

Don't weep the brush

OK, Anyone.

Do you not ned to weep when using Methanol Soap in the Foam Brush?

You DO NOT want to weep if you are using Methanol Soap. It will defeat the purpose of having it.

I don't see the advantage of weep the foam brush anyways. When the water freezes it will usually start on the brushes. Then customers are scrubbing their cars with iced up brushes. Not to mention the damage it does to your brushes.

 

[Weather Or Not]

Winter Foam Brush System

I am in Chicago and use the Kleen Rite Methanol soap. You use more than with the regular soap since you need to increase the concentration when it gets colder.

I am some what of a newbie and didn't even know the stuff existed my first winter. The next winter was much better.

So, do I turn the weep off to the foam brush when I use this stuff?

I am self serve wash owner with 3/1 , as of 2 years yesterday , the existing wash was ran for 13 years by the original owner which is now our Arcadian Chemical rep, the system he perfected is very simple, there are (2) 15 gallon containers of foam brush soap (triton spearmint) 1 is green colored and 1 is blue colored, the green is for summer and blue is for winter, when you drive up to the wash you can tell by the color on the ground which you are on, it switches automatically when the temp drops to the setting you have set on t-stat, the mixing tank is 2 sided with 2 hydro-minders, the summer is tirtrated with the normal tip and water for the soap , the winter has 2 tips 1 for soap and 1 for methanol the menthanol minder is either beige /black or no tip depending on the prevailing temp and is only switched 6-8 times during the winter because in utah the lows stay consitent for long periods of time, the mix in my opinion is just as good as the summer mix because the actual liquid volume being mixed is similiar to summer rates just split between methanol and water , in the 2 full winters we have gone through, we have purchased only (2)55 gallon drums of methanol (i forget the price ,approx 3.15 a gallon i believe) we transfer the 55 into 15 gallon drums and going into our 3rd winter we have approx 30 gallons left over from last year. when the temp drops there is a signal to a timer that is set at a little over 3 minutes which switches over to the blue winter mix and pushes foam mix through the lines and illuminates a red light on the box above(light and color of foam let you know when you are on winter) have had no problems with this system and easy to run. set it and forget it(when temp rises,it goes back to summer and uses the winter mix in the lines until summer gets to brushes) it does leave a big pile of foam in bays when it purges to winter but the little bit of waste is worth avoiding a freeze up.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

I'm having problems with the chemical supply company about the type of methanol. I told them it was for my bubble brushes so they wouldn't freeze. They say they have over 465 different methanol blends.
Does anybody know what type/kind of methanol to ask for?
Thanks, Tim.

 

[soapy]

My methenol is labeled as Racing fuel. I get it from the local gas distributor.

 

[Jim Caudill]

Same here, find out where your local midget racers get their alcohol. My supplier has pumps just like at the gas station; pull up fill up your tanks, go inside and pay. I used to get mine from a chemical supplier in 55 gal metal drums. Too much trouble. I now use 2 of the 15gal plastic drums and fill up myself.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

How flammable is it?

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Yes, methanol burns! (someone smarter than me can answer your specific question, "how flammable."
Somebody sells little plastic balls (various sizes) to float on top of chemicals, I cant recall if the purpose is to insulate or to stop evaporation. I simply cut a piece of styrofoam insulation to the size of my mixing tanks, and float it on top. It helps insulate, and it stops the methanol from evaporating off. So I think I have less chance of a fire (I think the chances are low anyway), plus the methanol stays in the product longer.

Btw, I read somewhere that you need to mix/stir the meth soap solutions periodically.

 

[Kidwash]

Can you provide the mixing ratio's or direct me to were I can find them?

 

[JMMUSTANG]

This might be a dumb question but wouldn't windshield solution work the same way?
Maybe mixing 40-45 gallons windshield solution to 5 gallons bubble brush soap.

 

[MEP001]

Windshield washer solution works, but you need a lot of it. I buy the cheap -20? stuff from WalMart at $1.29 a gallon, which is only about 10% ethyl alcohol. We have very mild winters, so only about twice a year I need it. If there's a threat of a freeze I mix 5 gallons into the tank along with enough soap to make it foam, then run all the bays long enough to clear the lines. It only has to last overnight, so that occasional cost isn't a big deal. If I had to run it like that for three months, we'd go broke.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

MEP001 that's what I've been doing for a couple of years too.
But I was wondering if mixing 40-50 gals. of windshield fluid to 5 gals. soap would work if the temperature dropped to 10-20 degrees for a longer length of time.
Has anybody tried it for longer periods of time with the lower temperatures?
If so did it work or was there problems?