Central Vac Use in Bays?

[Bubbles Galore]

Lately I have heard this mentioned a few times and was wondering if anyone has any experience with it...my concerns would be an inordinate amount of garbage in the bay and people potentially running over the hose...thoughts?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I have actually thought of just having a regular vac in the bay, but as another selection on the dial. I wouldn't think that the hose would be any more or less susceptible to being run over as it would be with any other vac placement. One could actually suspend it on a boom like a dryer hose if they wanted. Cleanliness wouldn't be an issue IMO since you could just wash the bay down when needed. I like the idea of getting SS bay price for the vacuum. My better half pointed out what would most likely be the biggest downside, customers dilly-dallying as they do around vac islands.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Not a bad point...but would a regular 2 motor vac have enough suction for the extended hose length necessary to be in the bay? Where would you place the vacuum?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I wouldn't see any reason that it couldn't be in the bay, maybe in a corner on the exit end. Keep in mind that I am just thinking out loud. I've never seen it done. I can picture a tiny lot with no room for vacuums being done this way...maybe.

 

[DiamondWash]

That reminds me of old washes that had the vac island in front of the bays before you pull in and it created problems for customers who wanted to get into that bay to wash but somebody was in front of it vacuuming their vehicle same issue here would be somebody who wants to only vacuum in the bay and spend $1.00 to vacuum while other customers wanted to wash have to wait or find another bay that's not being used.

 

[captain cw]

I can't see this as a good idea on busy days when my vac islands are busy and I have lines at my wand bays.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Pricing is another issue.
Example - Not far from reality and one with easy math.
Lets say an average vac is $1.00 for 4 minutes, or 25 cents a minute. Bay pricing is likely double that.

 

[robert roman]

Its pretty simple, you can only come out ahead if the vacs earn more than using the spray bay.

 

[ken-pro]

I posted about this a couple of years ago. We have done this sucessfully at several of our customer sites. The key is to charge the same as the bay timer. Even with outside vacuums priced substantially lower, the conenience of having the in-bay vacuums is their appeal. If the bay already has credit card acceptance then its win win - saving the cost of installing card acceptance on an outside vac.

 

[Jeff_L]

I think the idea is something to consider.

Central vac versus individual vacs. I'd have to vote for individual vacs. I wouldn't want to fire up an entire system for an individual bay user, nor would I want the inverse of that and have a central system on all the time. Also, if the central vac would go down, then all the bays are down. Thus individual vacs seem to have more advantages.

Vac placement. Placement inside of the bay might have challenges such as noise for the customer and having to protect it from overspray. I would use the space outside on the back of the bay, such as between bays. That apron is hardly, if ever, walked on. So it wouldn't be in the way.

Tying up the bay. There would be a trade off, now someone would have to wait for a bay to free up from a vacuum customer so they could go in to wash. Most of the months I don't see this as being a problem, there's usually a free bay for someone to use. During the busy days, I tend to find customers waiting for a customer vacuuming while the bay is open. Of course, that only happens to those of us who have vacuum islands in front of the bays and not have a separate detail area with vacs.

Trash in the bay. I would assume this wouldn't be any different than trash in front of the bay at the vac island. The positives I would hope to see is that customers would have to walk on their trash while washing, and thus would pick it up. That might be wishful thinking. The other positive is that it would be easier to clean up the sticky, gooey stuff that always seems to be around the vac islands (gum, candy, mystery goo)

Pricing. This would be awesome to have the vacuum as an option on the meter box, for those with credit card acceptors in the bay but not on the vacuum...you could now pick up credit card vacuum customers. Unless you have an intelligent system which allows you to adjust the time depending on the selection on the meter box, the price of the vacuums would have to increase. Such as instead of 1min for .25 at the vacuum, it'll now be 30sec for 1min. Maybe it's time for a vacuum price increase?

This is an interesting option, something I may put on my wish list for research.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I think the idea is something to consider.

Central vac versus individual vacs. I'd have to vote for individual vacs. I wouldn't want to fire up an entire system for an individual bay user, nor would I want the inverse of that and have a central system on all the time. Also, if the central vac would go down, then all the bays are down. Thus individual vacs seem to have more advantages.

.

Something I never really understood even with the tunnels and free central vac was running 10-20 HP for all those times you have 1 or 2 customers.

I think there may be an up front savings of a central vac with 10 drops versus 10 individual vacs. If it's free i don't know what the energy usage / payback is.

 

[mjwalsh]

Something I never really understood even with the tunnels and free central vac was running 10-20 HP for all those times you have 1 or 2 customers.

I think there may be an up front savings of a central vac with 10 drops versus 10 individual vacs. If it's free i don't know what the energy usage / payback is.

Earl & others,

I wonder if Variable Frequency Drive motors could be used with a central vacuum system? It would be interesting if anyone on the forum has enough expertise or has actual experience with a vacuum applied VFD.

MJ

 

[ken-pro]

The issue becomes how to have 1 central vac producer running several bay outlets. What happens when the person in Bay 1 has payed to vacuum, but the guy in Bay 2 just grabs the hose and can vacuum for free.

The issue with a single central vac system becomes finding a reliable and affordable control valve for each bay outlet - especially one that doesn't get jammed with stuff being vacuumed.

We use a commercial rated wet/dry central vac canister - ONE PER BAY. All ABS plastic construction. Mounted in the equipment room to keep out of the elements (And keep the noise in the equipment room) The system is designed specifically for wet or dry pickup specifically for car washes and detail shops.

 

[mjwalsh]

Another example of Canandian Wisdom!

The issue becomes how to have 1 central vac producer running several bay outlets. What happens when the person in Bay 1 has payed to vacuum, but the guy in Bay 2 just grabs the hose and can vacuum for free.

The issue with a single central vac system becomes finding a reliable and affordable control valve for each bay outlet - especially one that doesn't get jammed with stuff being vacuumed.

We use a commercial rated wet/dry central vac canister - ONE PER BAY. All ABS plastic construction. Mounted in the equipment room to keep out of the elements (And keep the noise in the equipment room) The system is designed specifically for wet or dry pickup specifically for car washes and detail shops.

Kevin,

That makes sense. It basically is exactly how our wet dry vacs are set up for our 2 stall dog wash. The noise is greatly muffled --- almost non existent!

Even if they can do a central vac with a VFD --- like Kevin says ---it still would need to have a way of gating off the suction on each individual bay unless an operator is giving away some or all of his vacs for free.

Ken-Pro - Kevin's post is another example of the sometimes superior Canadian Logic --- now if that could apply even more to my recent Dollar Coin extremely important poll thread --- the USA would have even more credibility. I know --- I know --- a few of my fellow forum members might suggest me moving to Canada permanently.

There are also advantages to the metric system --- that other --- sometimes more intelligent people--- from other countries use ---- that we Americans should also learn from & utilize when it makes sense!

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[bigleo48]

I posted about this a couple of years ago. We have done this sucessfully at several of our customer sites. The key is to charge the same as the bay timer. Even with outside vacuums priced substantially lower, the conenience of having the in-bay vacuums is their appeal. If the bay already has credit card acceptance then its win win - saving the cost of installing card acceptance on an outside vac.

Ken Pro,

One issue not mentioned is that in our neck-of-the-woods, it gets very cold. One issue that I have with the vac hoses in the bays is the ice that forms on the hose and nozzles. I have this problems with my Air-Shamees that renders them almost unusable in the cold winter months. Would that not be the same with the vacs?

 

[soapy]

I recall years ago Mark 7 made a vac that would hang on a bay wall. It had a fiberglass canister cleanout on the bottom. It was kind of rectangluar and not round. I think it would be easy to make your own 2 motor vac in a slim design that would not intrude into the bay. Using the bay timer would make it pretty cheap to build.

 

[pitzerwm]

Like someone else pointed out, if some is tying up the bay to vacuum, I'd think that you would want to charge the same as the wash time, thus use the bay timer for the vac too.

 

[ken-pro]

Ken Pro,

One issue not mentioned is that in our neck-of-the-woods, it gets very cold. One issue that I have with the vac hoses in the bays is the ice that forms on the hose and nozzles. I have this problems with my Air-Shamees that renders them almost unusable in the cold winter months. Would that not be the same with the vacs?

Definitely can be an issue. My customers tell me they can keep the hoses usable in all but the worst winter weather conditions.

Personally I think that Ontario car wash owners should be more receptive to "Barn Style" washes (One door in / one door out) which would eliminate these issues. Washes like these are very common in Western Canada.

 

[ken-pro]

I know --- I know --- a few of my fellow forum members might suggest me moving to Canada permanently.

You would be welcome here of course

 

[Jeff_L]

Ken Pro,

One issue not mentioned is that in our neck-of-the-woods, it gets very cold. One issue that I have with the vac hoses in the bays is the ice that forms on the hose and nozzles. I have this problems with my Air-Shamees that renders them almost unusable in the cold winter months. Would that not be the same with the vacs?

Good point, and something to consider. However in my case, all my vacs are out in the elements and not under any type of awning or sheltered area. Thus, in the winter I get ice and snow on them and have to shake them free occassionally.