Well, talked to the person that has been maintaining the carwash and he indicated the lines are straight from the pump to the wands.... no check valves.....going to check inlet flow to the pumps this morning...and tighten up hose clamps on all lines, see what happens.....
Cat 310 pulsating
- Thread starter Jason Studer
- Start date
Been thinkin about the inlet flow to the pump and causing pulsation due to weak hoses or air leaks. One thing we thought of was the inlet to the hose from the tank being corroded up and not letting enough water to flow to the pump. Going to use a gun cleaning kit (brush) to clear the inlet. Will have the inlet line open to get rid of junk and not run into the pump. Will advise
I.B. Washincars
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Usually, pulsation is a pump problem. You seem to be afraid to work on the pump. You can pull the valves out without pulling the head. Check the valves and o-rings first. If all is well there, pull the head and check the seals. Also check to see if the head is eroded (washed out) in the seal and/or valve areas. You can do this stuff for free. Replacing random parts that don't cure the problem costs money.
Ok, so we just noticed that the accumalators seem to require a charge to operate properly.... we just installed 2 new ones on the bays we are having issues with. Instructions say to charge the dampeners to above 200psi or until the pulsation stops. Has anyone else come across this? or am I using the incorrect pulsation dampeners?
I.B. Washincars
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I've never been able to tell the difference on a bay with a dampener and one without. Most of mine have been removed over the years with no adverse effects. Total waste of money, IMO.
MEP001
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A pulsation dampener doesn't keep the pump from pulsating. It's to smooth the normal operation of the pump. If you can feel it pulsating in the bay and you have pulsation dampeners installed and working properly, there's likely something seriously wrong with the pump.
You don't normally "charge" the pulsation dampeners, they come precharged. They should have 500-600 PSI in them, or half the operating pressure of the pump. You'd have to take them to a specialty shop to charge them.
I mentioned above about the inlet flow and noise - again, if the pump isn't clattering loudly with the trigger pulled, the flow is fine.
Like I.B. said, look at the pump. See the sticky at the top of the General Discussions sub-forum for pictures of a washed-out manifold so you know what to look for.
You don't normally "charge" the pulsation dampeners, they come precharged. They should have 500-600 PSI in them, or half the operating pressure of the pump. You'd have to take them to a specialty shop to charge them.
I mentioned above about the inlet flow and noise - again, if the pump isn't clattering loudly with the trigger pulled, the flow is fine.
Like I.B. said, look at the pump. See the sticky at the top of the General Discussions sub-forum for pictures of a washed-out manifold so you know what to look for.
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MEP001
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I agree, as long as the lines to the bays are something that gives at least a little. I used to run a wash that had cast iron pipe to the bays. It was really loud and rough without pulsation dampeners. One of them froze and broke and I replaced it with braided steel hose - it wasn't nearly as loud but you could still feel every stroke of the pump at the gun. I always use thermoplastic hose now, and even with a 30' run it's smooth and quiet.I.B. Washincars said:
DiamondWash
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Well I have got 1 of 2 issues solved, first being my high pressure wouldn't go past 800 psi so I removed our "sync belt" style and installed a new V belt with new hardware for motor and pump got the pressure up to 1000 psi but won't go past that and still have the pulsation, new valves are next, how do you know if your sucking air into the inlet?
MEP001
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Just out of curiosity, what made you think replacing the cog belt with a V-belt would address the pulsating issue? The only reason the pressure is up now is because the pump is running faster.
You said you put in new seals - did you check the valves and o-rings? Did you look in the "sticky" thread to see how to identify a washed out manifold? It will just blow out the brand new o-rings. You may have a bad valve or debris caught under a poppet.
IMO the best way to check if your pulsating issue is caused by air sucking through a leak is to hook pressurized water to the pump. Most that I've worked on have rinse supplied at city pressure through a solenoid, so if switching to rinse doesn't solve pulsating, it's not a supply issue.
You said you put in new seals - did you check the valves and o-rings? Did you look in the "sticky" thread to see how to identify a washed out manifold? It will just blow out the brand new o-rings. You may have a bad valve or debris caught under a poppet.
IMO the best way to check if your pulsating issue is caused by air sucking through a leak is to hook pressurized water to the pump. Most that I've worked on have rinse supplied at city pressure through a solenoid, so if switching to rinse doesn't solve pulsating, it's not a supply issue.
Well, replaced both pumps in bay 4 and 5. The lines still pulsate when the trigger on the wand is not engaged. Once the trigger is engaged, the bays will stop pulsating.... have left the bays alone..... cannot keep chasing the same parts being the issue and replacing (pumps, unloaders and such). Pressure is good. Does not appear to be an air leak or we would see evidence of water leakage..... at this point, whatever is causing the pulsation at some point may break and then we will know what the problem is. Have a friend helping me on this issue who use to run a carwash..... we both have no idea. Air getting into system would explain it but see no evidence of an air leak....
DiamondWash
Well-known member
Well the "cog" belt was longer then the current V belt and our equipment is/was experimental from Ryko Mfg back in 02 since then Ryko changed all outgoing self serves to V belt style they couldn't tell me why they switched the design but oh well, I have checked the valves all 6 of them to be debris free but the o-rings do look deteriorated after 10 yrs, so I will just change them all. As for the water supply it is ran off a solenoid from city pressure.
I.B. Washincars
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Greywolf, are you using the correct gun? It is my understanding that if you are using a "non-weep" gun when you need a "weep" gun it will cause crazy pulsation issues.
DiamondWash, what did the valve bores look like? Usually, if a valve o-ring is broken it will wash out the manifold. Was yours washed out?
DiamondWash, what did the valve bores look like? Usually, if a valve o-ring is broken it will wash out the manifold. Was yours washed out?
DiamondWash
Well-known member
Please describe "washed-out" on a 5CP2120W, I took the valves back out and the poppets seem to be moving freely I really don't know what to look for if the manifold head is "washed out".
I do not have rebuilt pumps, replaced with new (have no experience rebuilding yet). I have 3 other bays with non weep wands and they are running fine..... I am using Cat 310 pumps and have never had anyone thell me they must have weeping wands....
I.B. Washincars
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If the o-ring was broken, most likely there will be a matching groove in the head. Stick your finger in there and feel for a rough area or a groove. When you feel it you will be able to look in there and see it.
There is a "sticky" thread in the "General" section, about 310 manifolds. Everything is described there, including pictures. Read it all. I can't believe that as long as you have been around here that you haven't seen it.
Greywolf, I have not had the gun issue. I'm just going off what I've been told.
DiamondWash
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Well that was an eye opening experience and read all 3 pages of info I appreciated that.
DiamondWash
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Which is better Vilco or Kleen Rite for pump repair because I can now see that I have some wash-out on my 5CP manifold. I better go plant some more money trees.
MEP001
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If you have an unloader, the pressure on the pump should drop to zero when the trigger is not pulled. If it doesn't do that, you do NOT have an unloader (or it's defective) and you SHOULD NOT be using non-weep guns. I.B. is right, if you use a non-weep gun on a pump with a balanced pressure regulator it can do all sorts of weird stuff including pulsate.
I've been told on this forum that Vilco doesn't permanently press stainless seats into the valve areas, so there's a chance it will erode away again. The Kleen-Rite repair has stainless seats pressed into all seal areas.
DiamondWash, did you examine the poppets? I've seen a few times on 5CP pumps where the poppet cracks and causes pulsation.
I've been told on this forum that Vilco doesn't permanently press stainless seats into the valve areas, so there's a chance it will erode away again. The Kleen-Rite repair has stainless seats pressed into all seal areas.
DiamondWash, did you examine the poppets? I've seen a few times on 5CP pumps where the poppet cracks and causes pulsation.