425,232.18

[suntexas]

Hi, Everyones.

Please, Can you tell me your opinion.
This is good choice?



AVW / TOMMY EQUIPMENT LIST
Item # Description QuantityTotal Price

TR1105 TopBrushComboSS -2 $2380000
CN1-0707 60' Conveyor Roller -1 $17,600.00
CN1C 10' Steel Conveyor - Additional Sections -6 $9,780.00
RC1DG-34-3/8 Guid Rails (Roller Style) S.S. -1 $415.00
RC2 13'X36" Roller Correlator S.S. Frame -1 $2,950.00
CPU3 Convayor Power Unit, Includes remote pulse -1 $3,100.00
PGS1 Duel Prep Gun Single Pump Station W/Holders -1 $3,955.00
PA1 Pivotting Arch,Control Panel -1 $1,980.00
APS2-0209-F-8QT Pump Station, Foaming, Flo-jet -1 $810.00
WBA1 Wheel Brite Applicator W/ Flojet Pump-Foaming -1 $1,370.00
P-2SL3/4 Double Solenoid Panel 3/4", under/wrap/contour -1 $442.00
WACB0405 Z-Wrap-Contour Combo S.S. -1 $28,900.00
SF0405 Curved Compact Foamer, wraps -1 $240.00
APS2-0209-F-8QT Pump Station, Foaming, Flo-jet -1 $810.00
UW1 Underbody Rinse Manifold -1 $990.00
TR1105 TopBrushComboSS . . -2 $2380000
, .
SF0405 Curved Compact Foamer, wraps -1 $240.00
APS2-0209-F-8QT Pump Station, Foaming, Flo-jet -1 $810.00
WBA1 Wheel Brite Applicator W/ Flojet Pump-Foaming -1 $1,370.00
TF0405 Triple Coat Foamers, Curved Compact -1 $720.00
APS2-0209-F-8QT Pump Station, Foaming, Flo-jet -3 $2,430.00
MM5 Mini Mitter S.S. (Polish Mitter) -1 $7,200.00
RB2 Rocker Panel Brushes 41" S.S. -1 $5,650.00
AWSmirbar-top Mirror Side Top Rinse System -1 $850.00
AWS-OWC Oscillating Wheel Cannons W/Inter-clean Nozzles S.S. -1 $3,175.00
PSH25 H25 High Pressure Pump Station -1 $5,754.00
AA1 Application Arch, Freash Water Rinse -1 $1,435.00
P-2SL3/4 Double Solenoid Panel 3/4", m.mitter,41", f.w.rinse -1 $442.00
AA1 Application Arch, drying agent -1 $1,435.00
CPS1-B Pump Station, Non-Foaming, Bw -1 $693.00
AA1 Application Arch, Dupont Teflon -1 $1,435.00

 

[suntexas]

CPS2-B Pump Station, Foaming, Bw -1 $810.00
AA5D-4 Shower Rinse Manafold, r.o. rinse -1 $520.00
E-F2016 Blank S.S. Arch Cross Over For TSA -1 $1,575.00
BL1C10X10 Blower Arch 10'X10" S.S. -1 $3,990.00
BL1007D-15 Blower Producer 15 HP. S.S. 6 Ea. -7 $20,930.00
HPU7 7 Port Gravity Fed Hydraulic Pack -1 $7,800.00
E-SE-2027 Reclaim System, 5 HP Pumping Unit w/Suction and Strainer -1 $2,775.00
TOMMY EQUIPMENT Total $141,801.00


R.O. CONDITIONING EQUIPMENT LIST
Pur-Clean6000 GPD Spot-Free Rinse System w/150 PSI Repressurization & Reject
Simoniz SimonizTire 110V OV2 1 ,79500 Water Recovery System 1 $14,195.00
PTI 800 Gal. R.O. Tanks & R.O. Waste Tanks (2 for each) 4 $3,560.00
R.O. CONDITIONING EQUIPMENT Total $17,755.00
ELECTRIC AND CONTROLLER EQUIPMENT LIST
CCS VFD Panel Qty.7 1x15hp H25, 6x15hp Blower NEMA 12 Encl. 1 $19,931.10
CCS MCC Panel conv,hyd,vacuu NEMA 12 Encl. 1 $3,786.43
DRB DRB Systems Inc. Site Watch Controller w/ RFID and XPT Terminals 1 $79,121.37
CCS Collision Avoidance, Auxilialy controls 1 $2,950.00
AWS Start Stop Stations Qty.2 2 $320.00
CCS Vehicle Detection System 1 $1,350.00
ELECTRIC AND CONTROLLER EQUIPMENT Total $107,458.90

 

[suntexas]

VACUUM EQUIPMENT LIST
Vacu- Tec Car Wash Vac. System 1-25HP 20 Drop, Separator & Secondary 1 $28,832.00

VACUUM EQUIPMENT Total $28,832.00

SUPPORT EQUIPMENT LIST
Simoniz Simoniz Tire Shiner 110V w/ OV2 Sign
Shiner w/ Sign 1 $10,795.00
$10 .
MICH./ 120' Protruded Fiberglass Grating, Custom Cut Trench cover 1 $5,400.00
AWS-AC Speed Aire Commercial 5HP Air Compressors 2 $3,566.00
AWS-AD Ingersol Rand H.T. Refrigerated Compressed air dryer 1 $2,000.00
057N Pan Clearance Board 2 $190.00
2X10 illumanted Menu Panel, 24"x 120" 2 $1,695.00
TSS-151-C Instructional Signage ( 151C ) 1 $1,095.00
TSS?4FLS Wheel Clean, GREEN 2 1,090.00
$
TSS/4FLSM Triple Coat, MULTI-Color Qty 2 2 $1,190.00
tss/ffcbf4 Tire Shine, "Simoniz" Curved Qty 2 2 $1,190.00
TSS/3DSDS Exit & Entrance, Directional Signage Qty 2 1 $1,460.00
TSS/FFCBF Dupont Teflon BLACK 2 1,090.00
$
TSS-SS147 Wait Go Sun Shield 1 $45.00

SUPPORT EQUIPMENT Total $30,806.00

TOTAL EQUIPMENT PACKAGE $326,652.90

Erection & Installation $62,064.05
Estimated Freight $10,383.00
Estimated Sales Tax 8% $26,132.23
Grand Total $425,232.18

 

[smokun]

Bold Move!

Posting your proposal is a bold move! Asking for additional help and input is smart! By putting things out there for others to see can spirit more input from potential suppliers that know that nobody really has the market cornered... and many can basically offer the same thing. However, if you fail to really shop and compare, you'll miss a very very important opportunity.

The first question that comes to mind is... what comparison shopping have you done? Nothing special about the equipment that can't be matched by others, so having a side-by-side comparison is the normal process of prudent buying. AVW makes The equipment for TOMMY, so a sensible comparison of similar stuff from SONNY'S, MacNeil, Belanger, Hanna, Peco and others will give you a fairly effective cost analysis of the hardware. Same is true regarding everything else. Then, also include the specialty companies that focus on a particular product like air dryers or conveyors or data systems. Then you must determine if you want to buy a single manufacturer's "system" as-is... or you wish to modify or augment the purchase with a particular piece of equipment that seems unique in how it does what it does from a performance standpoint, like for example air dryers, or flat-belt conveyors.

There is no single company that does it all... better than everyone else. Just about every company copies from others, so the same or similar technology is differentiated mainly by marketing and claims of advantages.

 

[smokun]

Smart Move!

Also consider these four basic bottom-line factors:
1. Who's going to install it and keep it running? You must have solid back-up support from both the manufacturer and the distributor.
2. What assurances are given in written warranties and performance guarantees that safeguard your investment with continuing assistance?
3. How easy will it be to get service and parts, especially if you lose faith in your local rep?
4. Who's going to provide effective training that empowers you, the owner?

If you haven't done your own homework by shopping around and scrutinizing your options and alternatives, I implore you to do it before making any final decision. After that, remember that practically everything is negotiable.

 

[Earl Weiss]

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Contrary to what some say about nothing special, I have AVW mitters as well as some from Belanger and Sherman. AVW is by far the easiest to work on vis a vis replacing parts that wear.

Also Have an AVW Top brush. Unless I have a short conveyor I would not do it again. If you can put in tripple mitters to heck with the top brush.

Correlator. - I have rear wheel push and fairly straight entires. Have eliminated the correlator at 3 of 4 places. $th only has it because it was there. Do you really need it?

Conveyor. - AVY has a wood center track . 2 x 6 that rolllers ride on are easily replaceable. I do not know of any other mfgr that does this. When I inherited this conveyor thought it was stupid. Now I luv it. Easier to maintain than my others.

Tire Shine. - Have 3 Viper units. AFAIAC it is the simplest and best out there. I know one guy who took out a TOmmy unit and put one in. I think he is happy with the change. He sells a boatload of tire shine.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Are you going with Free SS central Vac? Or are you full service.

I always questioned the need for big HP central Vacs especialy for all those times when there only a few people there. With a VFD setup you may nott use electricity for all the HP all the time. Now I see Sonny's has a Rocket Vac which is a small individual unit using a little HP at each stall as used.

If it is free SS you may consider installing individual units Sonny's or others with Push button timer switches. You can spend a lot less than $28,000 initialy and simply run electricity to each stall instead of the hosing, and plan for more later as business ramps up by running empty conduit, or even conduit with wires for later vac addittions.

 

[mac]

Suntexas, thanks for posting the actual costa. I wish others would do the same for the automatics.

 

[rph9168]

I would echo what Steve wrote about checking out the distributor and other support elements of the package. Definitely get quotes from others and compare carefully what they offer. This is one of the most critical decisions you will be making for your wash. Take your time and do your homework.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I would echo what Steve wrote about checking out the distributor and other support elements of the package. Definitely get quotes from others and compare carefully what they offer. This is one of the most critical decisions you will be making for your wash. Take your time and do your homework.

Ditto , Ditto, Ditto. I do not know if you are a newbie or not. I think some newbies feel they can flip the switch and forget about it.

On new installs there is often fine tuning needed. Had some experienced people mess up initialy and have to correct stuff. Oftne, you may have various trades involved all with several humans working. A good distributer will be able to correct minor issues whether they be electrical. plumbing, or equipment. Once you run a volume of cars thru you need to be concerned with having someone do heavy duty maintenance.

 

[Mitch]

I know one company that installs for 10%.

 

[Chiefs]

I would say that what you have been quoted is a thorough and competitively priced system. You can certainly get other quotes from others. However, it is critical that what they quote you is an apple to apple comparison. If they do not recommend something that Tommy's does, they need to explain why they don't.

As a newbie, you can always try to put a system together piecemeal. However, you run the risk of having lots of indians but no chief. What I mean by that, is if you choose poorly in one or more areas, then no one wants to be responsible for making other people's equipment work in conjunction with theirs (unless of course you are paying them a consulting/setup fee on top of the commission they are making on the equipment they sell you).

A couple of concerns on the wash process. First of all, make sure that you dual prep gun station is either two (2) 5 HP pumps or a single 10 HP. Anything less is underpowered. Next, I noticed that this package is primarily a cloth was package with very little high pressure equip,ment except for the wheel cannons. Now prep guns are important for addressing extra-ordinary conditions that certain vehicles or certain times of the year present you with. However with this system, it appears that vehicle prepping will not be discretionary but rather essential. This means slower throughput, especially on prime wash days when you should be able to lock and load and keep vehicles close together.

In this day and age, an all cloth car wash is passe. A hybrid wash process featuring a touchless wash process follwed by your cloth wash and cloth polishing sections will enable you greater hourly wash volume, and greater revenue with less vehicle prepping (i.e. less labor) rather than more.

 

[Chiefs]

Mitch with all due respect, everyone in the business knows and all newcomers should know that when anyone quotes you "installation" for 10%, that it does not include all required plumbing and electrical controls and hookups. That 10% is actually for "erecting the equipment". Many new operators have been screwed royally in this industry when after the erection is complete, they are left with having to spend an additional 15-20% of the equipment price to get all of the plumbing, wiring and controls hooked up and actually be ready to start up the equipment.

I absolutely guarantee you that if pin down anyone who quotes you a 10% "installation" fee and specify that for that 10% all electrical and plumbing work be performed in order to start-up the equipment, that they will back-off insatntly and tell you, "Oh, you want a turn key installation."

When I pay for a heating and cooling company to install a new water heater, I expect to have hot water when I get home, not have it sit there waiting for a plumber to actually hook up the gas line.

The 20% installation fee quoted by Tommy's seems reasobnable in that the VFDs for the air dryers and the motor control center are already included in the equipment quotation. Without them, the installation fee for equipment - including erection can easily run 30-35% of the total equipment price.

Be forwarned installation and erection are two totally different animals and both are required in order to be able to start up any car wash system. Dot all you I's and cross all your T's in this buisness there are far to many charlatans that have burned some very good people.

 

[smokun]

Definition-Specific Terms Clarifiy Things!

I absolutely agree with Bill that all too often people mix the terms "install" and "erect"as though they suggested the same thing, which is categorically WRONG.

As Bill indicates, erecting equipment generally means to "properly set in position and secure"... whereas install usually means "to put in position ready to use". So, if you quote an "installed price", it should include "everything required to work and operate properly", which would include any electrical and plumbing.

Turnkey is similar to install in that it requires that everything is complete and ready to operate immediately upon being switched on.

As my grade school teacher always said... "Say what you mean... and mean what you say!"

Enough said?

 

[rph9168]

Another word of caution. If you have the contractor instead of the equipment company or distributor arrange the electric and plumbing work for the installation make sure those companies or individuals the contractor uses have experience with that type of work for a wash. I have seen several installations turn into absolute nightmares when a contractor used an electrician or plumbing "buddy" without wash experience do the work.

 

[mac]

Chief's, very well put. There is so much hokum in this business that even if someone does their "due dilingance" they can still find out the hard way that some people only tell you what you want to hear.

 

[robert roman]

My opinion is that it looks like a nice list of equipment.

Is it a good choice? It could be but without more information on what you are trying to accomplish it is very difficult to provide a meaningful answer.

 

[smokun]

The Importance Of A Good Floorplan

I agree, Bob... but add this essential caution: Too many carwash designers and installers fail to provide the right balance of equipment along with the proper space required to allow for effective equipment performance. Things like dwell-time and drip-space are far too often compromised simply to squeeze in more equipment into an already downsized building.

An effective floorplan shows where the equipment must be placed to provide optimum washing and drying. Sandwiching washing and rinsing equipment too close will increase costs initially... as well as continuously in operational overhead.

So when you provide a list, it may simply offer a lot of good equipment on a proposal. Absent the floor plan that cites how the equipment is to be used and where it will be installed is far more telling as to the overall efficacy of the project. A great list of equipment can be senselessly limited by its available space for performance, thus costing more up front... as well as wasting costly chemicals on a daily basis.

Buyers should exercise a great deal of caution. It has always been a delicate balancing act for equipment suppliers to recommend equipment be installed within acceptable tolerances for best results... while also resorting to maximize the sale of equipment by using a shoehorn to make the equipment fit into a too-small building.

 

[smokun]

Will It Fit & Work Properly?

Here's a sensible suggestion. Get a good second opinion on the actual floorplan by an impartial and unbiased party who specializes in operational performance and knows what to do... as well as what to avoid. It need not be an adversarial situation... because the goal for all involved must be to achieve the best performance possible. The more heads involved might provide a more thorough evaluation. That said, it is a very easy process if done before the building is actually built. It's much less costly to modify ink on paper... than when it's too late once the concrete is dry!


Just some well-intentioned advice...[/SIZE]