Bay Ceiling Light Fixtures
- Thread starter Gabriel
- Start date
Bubbles Galore
Active member
I put in T-5's and have been extremely happy with them.
I tried to look at T 5's but did not exactly figure them out. What source did you buy them from? Are they a special fluorescent fixture suitable for Car Wash application and harsh Automatic environment and are they bright like C Store and Service Station locations.
Bubbles Galore
Active member
I purchased mine from 2 different sources, but would go with the ones from Kleen-Rite. I installed them in our automatically and really like the light output of them. Just do a search for T-5 and you'll find them.
seattleguy
Member
I have the the ones from KR and they seem great.
Indiana Wash
Member
I got mine from Larry Haage at www.smartlightingsolutions.com
I have no interest in his business but he has been an excellent source. I am very happy with his product and his customer service. For car washes, he makes sure that the fixtures have car wash amenities.
I have heard that people have had clips or brackets break on the Kleen Rite T 5's because Kleen Rite did not make sure they had stainless clips or brackets.
I selected Larry because he had the best price with all of the extras you need for a car wash. I got:
1. Mirror reflector,
2. stainless clips,
3. stainless mounting brackets and
4. acrylic lens.
Most vendors charged an extra $10 for each upgrade. I think mine were 90 when I got them. They are up to $104 now. I also got several with built in occupancy sensors to keep half of the lights off when the bays are unoccupied.
I have no interest in his business but he has been an excellent source. I am very happy with his product and his customer service. For car washes, he makes sure that the fixtures have car wash amenities.
I have heard that people have had clips or brackets break on the Kleen Rite T 5's because Kleen Rite did not make sure they had stainless clips or brackets.
I selected Larry because he had the best price with all of the extras you need for a car wash. I got:
1. Mirror reflector,
2. stainless clips,
3. stainless mounting brackets and
4. acrylic lens.
Most vendors charged an extra $10 for each upgrade. I think mine were 90 when I got them. They are up to $104 now. I also got several with built in occupancy sensors to keep half of the lights off when the bays are unoccupied.
I bought several from KR. I have had the plastic clips break and also had three ballasts go in the first year. I called KR to get them replaced and the company that made the lights went out of business so KR wouldn't stand behind them.
dirty harry
Member
My vote is for the LSI LED canopy lights. Bright, efficient, and low maintenance
MEP001
Well-known member
T5 fluorescent is not a type of fixture, it's a a particular type of fluorescent. Any good vapor-tight fixture is suitable for the car wash environment. The efficacy (light output per watt) is the same as metal halide (the lights used at most gas station pumps) and they don't lose their light output over time like the Scottsdales.Gabriel said:
LSI has a calculator to help you figure it out. One thing that's NOT included is the eventual replacement cost of the LED fixtures, which is about 15 years. Another is the fact that you get less light per watt from LEDs than from metal halide or T5 fluorescents, so they're actually less efficient. They're only cheaper to operate because they're lower overall wattage.Gabriel said:
I've done the math several times - between the initial cost and the eventual replacement of LED lights, there's almost no savings at all over metal halide in the 15 years (rated 60,000 hours) they should last.
I suppose that what concerns me is I do not know how many fixtures of the new types are required to light a single Automatic or a SS Bay. T 5's (What Size and how many), Changing the Scottsdale's to accept the screw in fluoerscent bulbs (What size and how many) or the new halogen fixture and lights (ahow many per Bay). Has anyone done these change overs for your Wash. I can figure the cost if I know how many of each type it takes for one single Bay. In my area you just can't find anything new to look at.
MEP, you beat me with a great answer. Now I have got to try to see these in operation and try to figure what is better looking. I know for that LED's are extremely bright, but I can't find any to see how bright is too bright. No Fluoescent or Scottscales changed to accept a bulb either. I wish some would post pictures of any of these so that they could be compared. Thanks for the answer. It was very informative and I really do appreciate you taking the time to help.
MEP001
Well-known member
T5 fluorescents have about the same efficacy (light output per watt) as the metal halides you have now, so to keep the same light you'd just match the wattage. In fact you could reduce the wattage some since your Scottsdales lose nearly half their light output before they reach half their rated life. T5 fluorescents only lose about 5% of their light output throughout their entire life.Gabriel said:
You won't find a fluorescent adaptor for the Scottsdales that will be anywhere near as bright as the 320W metal halide. Someone posted some time back about using induction fluorescent adaptors which actually have a much higher efficacy than either T5 fluorescent or metal halide. It looks promising and cheaper to retrofit than replacing the fixtures.Gabriel said:
Halogens are incandescent. The very best ones still use three times the energy for the same light as the worst fluorescents.Gabriel said:
They're bright when you stand under one and look straight into it. They are less bright per watt as either the metal halides you have now or T5 fluorescent. There are a few that have come up with LEDs that are close to the same light output per watt, but those are over-driven and have a short life span.Gabriel said:
MEP001
Well-known member
If you meant converting your Scottsdales to induction fluorescent, it's not a retrofit. Read this thread:
http://forum.autocareforum.com/showthread.php?t=5830
If you meant the LSI conversion to LED for your Scottsdales, it's on their site:
http://www.lsi-industries.com/
http://forum.autocareforum.com/showthread.php?t=5830
If you meant the LSI conversion to LED for your Scottsdales, it's on their site:
http://www.lsi-industries.com/
Lighting change out
Mep, you have been terrific! Thanks again for all of the information as I am really out of my element when it comes to changing all of the lights for our Automatics, Self Serve Bays and covered Vac Island. I want to do it right and getting good information is really hard in my area of the world. If you have in your mind what you think is the better choice please say it. Even with all of the information I am having a hard time deciding between T 5's and working on the old Scottsdales to change them to fluroscent. Thanks again, Gabriel
Mep, you have been terrific! Thanks again for all of the information as I am really out of my element when it comes to changing all of the lights for our Automatics, Self Serve Bays and covered Vac Island. I want to do it right and getting good information is really hard in my area of the world. If you have in your mind what you think is the better choice please say it. Even with all of the information I am having a hard time deciding between T 5's and working on the old Scottsdales to change them to fluroscent. Thanks again, Gabriel
Indiana Wash
Member
Gabriel,
Sorry, my internet has been down. I recently replaced 32 scottsdale MH lights in my wash too. Each SS bay had 4 lights and each Auto had 6. I replaced each one with a vapor tight T5HO fixture. I actually got 34 fixtures with bulbs and all upgrades for $4000. I did the replacing myself.
In my SS's, I put two of the four fixtures on motion sensors so that normally, only 2 lights in each SS are on unless someone pulls in then all 4 are on.
Even with the motion sensors, my wash is much brighter than with the MH fixtures, especially since MH fixtures lose output over time.
Sorry, my internet has been down. I recently replaced 32 scottsdale MH lights in my wash too. Each SS bay had 4 lights and each Auto had 6. I replaced each one with a vapor tight T5HO fixture. I actually got 34 fixtures with bulbs and all upgrades for $4000. I did the replacing myself.
In my SS's, I put two of the four fixtures on motion sensors so that normally, only 2 lights in each SS are on unless someone pulls in then all 4 are on.
Even with the motion sensors, my wash is much brighter than with the MH fixtures, especially since MH fixtures lose output over time.
Indy Wash, did you use the 4' fixtures. I have talked with some guys that used 8' fixtures with only two to the bay and I had originally been looking at the 4' fixtures. We currently use 4 metal halide per bay 6 over the changer and product dispenser area and 8 over the Vacs. Where did you find the best fixture and price.
Indiana Wash
Member
I used the 4' fixtures. That way, I could just replace the MH fixtures and put one in place of each fixture. The other advantage I found was that I could put 2 in each bay on occupancy sensors which keeps them turned off when not in use. My bays look just as bright from the road but not as bright from the back with the 2 back lights turned off. They turn on when someone pulls in and stay on for 15 minutes after they leave, although I think I am going to change that to 5 minutes.
The best price I found was from Larry Haage at www.smartlightingsolutions.com
I have no interest in his company, but he was helpful. The reason I went with that company was that he did not nickle and dime for extras. For a car wash, you need Stainless hangars, stainless clips, acrylic lense and mirror reflector for the most light output. I found companies that were close to the same price but charged $10 for each extra. That raised the cost of the fixture by nearly 50%! I also got my bulbs from him with the fixtures. They were about $4 each. I originally ordered 34 fixtures with the aforementioned extras, 14 of which also had occupancy sensors, and 75 bulbs for $4006. That was a little more than a year ago and the price has probably gone up a little.
HERE IS THE KICKER. The reason I am happy to comment. I recently audited my electric bill and I am saving $200-250 every month in electricity alone. I am probably saving another $200 a year or more in light bulbs. Also, my wash looks MUCH brighter and inviting. I no longer have that blue or yellow glow of a post industrial movie.
