Constant power to a bay

[smallwash]

Hello all. We recently modified our self service 4 bay car wash deliver spot free. My partner showed up to the wash in the morning one bay was running on rinse. The bay was not wet so it had been running for quite sometime. This bay has constant power to it.

When the tech was modifying (6 days prior to this) the bay to deliver the spot free, we had a transformer go bad, smoking. The tech found another transformer on our shelf and installed it. Could this transformer be the issue? I am wondering if this replacement used transformer already had a problem with it.

We bought this wash three months ago and there are a lot of "used" parts on the shelf. It is dilling harris equipment with ginsan timers in the eq room bay panel. I swapped out the ginsan timer thinking this was the problem and the same thing happened with the bay still being activated.

Thanks for your time.

 

[MEP001]

It's not the transformer.

What type of doors do you have?

 

[smallwash]

Plain dilling harris old school meter doors. Eight position rotary switch, IDX MA800 coin acceptor. The door has a coin box light.

 

[smallwash]

picture of box

https://a.gfx.ms//photo_57.png

 

[2Biz]

A few things that come to mind.....Do you have 24v on the timed load off the timer? Does the rinse turn off when switching to a LP function on the rotary? Knowing this will help diagnose your problem. If the answer to both questions is "no", then its possible you have stuck relay contacts on the motor starter. Or you could have a possible short somewhere? This might explain the fried transformer? Do you own a voltmeter/ohm meter and know how to use it?

BTW...The link doesn't work for me.

 

[smallwash]

Rinse turns off when its not selected. Rinse was just the function that was last selected with the customer left. All functions are available and turn on when selected. I have a volt meter but am still getting acquainted with it!

I am not sure on the 24v on the timed load off the timer. It is a mess in the meter box, is it possible that I have wires touching that should not be?

 

[2Biz]

Disconnect the timed output on the timer in the Er panel. Go to the bay and see if the rinse starts when selected. If it does, you have another power source feeding the rotary.

Its time for you to get to 3rd base with that voltmeter! It is very difficult owning a CW and not know how to use one to diagnose problems such as what you are having now. The only other alternative is get another tech to sort it out for you.

 

[smallwash]

Thanks 2biz. We unhooked the time output from timer and it turned it off. It turns out it was the timer. I put another on and it worked. I am going to get a relay Installed before we open this bay back up.

 

[MEP001]

You don't need a relay, in fact you'd be better off putting in a 1 amp fuse. If a wire shorted and caused the timer to go bad, a relay will just cause more problems like burning up all the wiring.

 

[2Biz]

You shouldn't have any more than two solenoids or a solenoid and a motor latch drawing load at any given time. Mep is right. Adding a relay can let the magic smoke out if you have a short. It might be a good idea to check the amps draw on the timed output since its working now. Check it compared to your other bays. If you don't have an amp clamp meter, maybe you could borrow one.

 

[smallwash]

I am delivering the spot free using the high pressure pump in each bay. The spot free function has a 3 way value solenoid to change the water supply to the RO water and pressure regulator solenoid to reduce the PSI to 500 pounds.

 

[2Biz]

So that's 2 solenoids and 1 motor starter coil. About 20w total assuming 6w per coil. Surely that's not enough to overload the timer? I don't know what the load limit is on the timers your using? Might be something to check out to make sure you are well within limits.

 

[MEP001]

The GinSan timers have a 10 amp limit. You're barely pulling 1 amp. You should protect the circuit, not beef it up.

 

[smallwash]

Thanks.

I am getting an electrician out to the wash. What are some trouble shooting ideas to point him in the right direction to identify my electric problem?

 

[2Biz]

Read post 10 again. You need to figure out what is loading down the timer. BTW...What timer are you using? Also, what is the rated load capacity for the timer so you can make sure you are well within its limits.

 

[MEP001]

After re-reading your first post, odds are you don't have an electrical problem at all. You said the transformer went up in smoke - most likely at that point the timer was also shorted out. Again, an inline fuse would have prevented damage to any components and is all the protection you need.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Thanks.

I am getting an electrician out to the wash. What are some trouble shooting ideas to point him in the right direction to identify my electric problem?

What electrical problem? Replace the timer and keep washing cars. Having an electrician come out and trouble shoot carwash control wiring will most likely be a waste of time.