Foam Brush Change Over

[Kevin James]

We currently use the expensive anti-freeze foam brush soap at our washes. During the day the temperature is almost always above freezing so using the anti-freeze soap is total waste of money during the day when the temperature is above freezing. Does anyone know of a system or how to construct a system would automatically change over to regular Foam brush soap during the day and back to antifreeze soap when the temperature got below freezing?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I'm pretty sure Etowah Valley Eq. makes a changeover system.

 

[Buzzie8]

I have two foaming brush tanks in my Coleman system that I need to manually change over with a simple twist of a ball valve. I was considering attaching a controlbyweb.com temperature relay to a solenoid that would automatically switch it over when the temperature reaches a certain temperature. The problem with that is that if the wash isn't busy and the temperature drops without the methanol formula running through the lines I would have problems. If I knew how to overcome this my idea would be easy to accomplish.

 

[Doug P.]

I bought several of the Etowah Valley systems about 6 years ago. Reasonably priced and reliable. It does exactly what you described automatically.

Doug P.

 

[mjc3333]

I have two foaming brush tanks in my Coleman system that I need to manually change over with a simple twist of a ball valve. I was considering attaching a controlbyweb.com temperature relay to a solenoid that would automatically switch it over when the temperature reaches a certain temperature. The problem with that is that if the wash isn't busy and the temperature drops without the methanol formula running through the lines I would have problems. If I knew how to overcome this my idea would be easy to accomplish.

I made my own "switch" over system about 15 years ago when I switched my foam brushes from weeping water to methanol mix for the winter freeze protection.

I have two tanks, one with my regular foam brush mix, and one with my winter mix with methanol.

I have two Goulds pumps one for each. You could use any pump flojet procon etc.

I have a normally open solenoid valve on the regular foam brush and a normally closed solenoid valve on the methanol mix line. I also have a normally closed solenoid on the methanol mix that ties directly into all my foam brushes after their respective solenoids for the air and the soap mixture.

I control all the solenoids with my weep mizer output #2, which is basically a switch that closes when the temperature gets to 29 degrees.

At 29 degrees, the NO solenoid and the NC solenoids are energized. At the same time the second NC solenoid that is feed to the brushes after the air and soap solenoids is tied to a simple plc that is timed for 1 minute. This lets the system purge the regular foam brush soap with the methanol mix so no one has to be there to manually do it.

Once the temp rises above 29 degrees the two solenoids NO and NC are de-energized which technically turns the system back to using the regular foam brush.

This has saved my a lot of money by not having to first weep water as before, and also not having to run methanol mix all winter which is also very expensive.

 

[Twodose]

Yea, you need to purchase an anti-freeze foam brush system. I have 2 systems purchased from D/H and have been in service for about 25 years. Back when D/H actually sold good equipment.

It's a small stand with a split tank, one with affb and the other with regular fb, at 35° it switches to affb and purges the fb lines, above that it switches back to regular foam brush.

I use this tempurature control:

http://www.pexsupply.com/Ranco-ETC-...t-11629000-p?gclid=CKPb7LDT5LQCFYKK4Aodo1wAcQ

Which has a differential setting from 1-30°, i use a 3 ° differential so mine probably does not switch back to regular fb until about 38°, keeping it from switching back and forth from affb to regular fb.

I wonder using the weepmizer at 29° if there is no differential that at 30° it would switch back to reg fb and at 29° back to affb, seems this would waste allot of product.

I would also recommend Etowah Valley:
http://www.etowahvalleyequipment.com/misc.html#7

 

[2Biz]

My Tri-Foam Winterizing Washer Fluid Injection System is activated from the Secondary Output on the Weepmizer. I have the set-point @ 33° and often wondered if the temperature hovers around 33°, how many times it activates and deactivates my PLC which waistes Washer Fluid?

The link to the programmable Temp Sensor w/differential setting @ Pex Supply is a good find. I can see where this would be somewhat better than using the Weepmizer to control this function. I haven't had the washer fluid system in operation long enough to evaluate, but will keep the electronic temp controller in mind if I start going through a bunch of fluid. Thanks for Posting the link.

 

[MEP001]

My Tri-Foam Winterizing Washer Fluid Injection System is activated from the Secondary Output on the Weepmizer. I have the set-point @ 33° and often wondered if the temperature hovers around 33°, how many times it activates and deactivates my PLC which waistes Washer Fluid?

Do you have enough inputs and memory to add programming so that bays won't purge again unless the function has been used?

 

[2Biz]

Good question. I'm using 157 of the 200 FB's now. If it becomes a problem, it would be much simpler and easier to add that electronic t-stat (Link in Twodose's post) with temperature differential.

 

[Randy]

A few years ago I put together a Foam brush change over system that is controlled by output #2 on the Weepmizer. I used a 24 volt 3/8” Normally open solenoid valve on the Regular Foam Brush tank outlet. On the Winter Foam Brush Tank I used a 24 volt 3/8” Normally closed solenoid valve. My regular weep system for the Foam brush system had a small manifold that fed water to each bay Foam brush so I put a 24 volt ¼” Normally closed solenoid valve on that manifold with a ball valve so I could still use the regular Weep system if needed. I connected the 2 tanks together and then put a “T” on the outlet of the Flo-jet G57 pump and ran a ¼” hose off the “T” to the ¼: solenoid valve on the regular Foam Brush weep water manifold. When the Weepmizer turns On output #2 power is applied to the solenoid valves closing the Normally Open valve and Opening the Normally closed valve. I wired in a small timed relay on the power supply to the 1/4” solenoid so when the system is energized the 1/4” solenoid valve only opens for about 45 seconds starting the Flo-jet pump to purge out the Foam brush system with Winter Foam brush solution, after about 45 seconds the timed relay turns Off and the valve closes. The only time the 1/4” solenoid valve opens to purge the system is when it’s first energized. As long as the Weepmizer supplies power to Output #2 the Foam Brush system is on Winter Foam brush. When the temperature rises to about 34 degrees the system goes back to the regular Foam brush soap. When the temperature goes below the 34 degrees the cycle begins again. The system wasn’t a bank account breaker as I already had most of the parts on hand. It's a pretty simple system.

 

[Kevin James]

Thanks Randy. I brought this up last night at our monthly family pizza night. My maintenance guys and I penciled it out on the back of a placemat. The maintenance guys like the simplicity of the system and the fact that they can still use the weep water if needed. They think they have enough spare parts that they can start putting together a system to play with. They mentioned using a relay on the Weepmizer output #2 to take the load off the Weepmizer. Do you use a relay on Output #2? Do you think a 3 way Erie valve would work to change over from one product to the other?

 

[slash007]

We currently use the expensive anti-freeze foam brush soap at our washes. During the day the temperature is almost always above freezing so using the anti-freeze soap is total waste of money during the day when the temperature is above freezing. Does anyone know of a system or how to construct a system would automatically change over to regular Foam brush soap during the day and back to antifreeze soap when the temperature got below freezing?

Just curious, what size hydrominder tip do you use on the anti-freeze soap? I just bought some and it seems that you have to use a pretty large tip opening for it to work properly based on the instructions. I have always used a purple tip for my foam brush, for the anti-freeze soap it seemed like I had to use the beige tip which was about 1/10 ratio. I had it in use for only two days and it used up 25% of my 30 gallon container! Worse part is that the weather was above freezing all day. I had run a separate hose to the anti-freeze soap, so I just switched back to the regular soap as it should be above freezing for the next 3-4 days.

 

[2Biz]

I use winter FB soap (Warsaw Chemicals) using a beige tip...8 to 1 dilution ratio. At 8-1, Warsaw says its good down to 15°, colder than that and nobody washes anyway. I don't go through near as much chemical as you. Maybe 5 gallons every 2 weeks. You must have a very busy wash or something is not set right. You probably have the right approach though, when its busier/warmer, switching over to regular mix will save you money. You might benifit from something that does this automatically.

 

[slash007]

I use winter FB soap (Warsaw Chemicals) using a beige tip...8 to 1 dilution ratio. At 8-1, Warsaw says its good down to 15°, colder than that and nobody washes anyway. I don't go through near as much chemical as you. Maybe 5 gallons every 2 weeks. You must have a very busy wash or something is not set right. You probably have the right approach though, when its busier/warmer, switching over to regular mix will save you money. You might benifit from something that does this automatically.

I normally wouldn't have used that much, but it was completely my fault. It snowed on Friday and was cold, so that was when I switched over to the anti-freeze soap. Sat. and Sunday cars were lined up and it was warmer, so I should have switched back but forgot. During the normal cold days I'm sure it wouldn't use that much as not many people are washing cars when it is cold. An auto system would be nice.

 

[Randy]

This is the chart I go by:

Beige Tip 8-1 21 deg. Above
Black Tip 6-1 17 deg. Above
Gray Tip 5-1 15 deg. Above
No Tip 4-1 12 deg. Above

That's off a drum of JBS winter soap.

 

[Earl Weiss]

So, if you are using auto changeover do you use the tip for the coldest temp just in case and later adjust it back to save $ or what is the procedure.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

We currently weep our foam brush, but with the ever increasing water and sewer rates I might consider an automated winter FB set up. However, Slash's post about using 1/4 of a 30 over a weekend has me concerned. How much does a 30 gal drum of winter foam brush cost? Someone mentioned they were using JBS. I run my regular foam brush soap at 90:1 and go through quite a bit, whether its below freezing or not.

 

[Randy]

We currently weep our foam brush, but with the ever increasing water and sewer rates I might consider an automated winter FB set up. However, Slash's post about using 1/4 of a 30 over a weekend has me concerned. How much does a 30 gal drum of winter foam brush cost? Someone mentioned they were using JBS. I run my regular foam brush soap at 90:1 and go through quite a bit, whether its below freezing or not.

You have to play with the tips according to the weather forecast. Right now we are using a Beige tip, we aren’t excepting any freezing weather in the next few days. When it gets cold I’ll put in a Gray tip or if it’s real cold I’ll take the tip out, that doesn’t happen very often here.

A 30 gallon drum of Winter Foam brush soap KR30AF (Pink/Cherry Scent) from Kleen-Rite is $181.75. We don’t use a lot of the Winter Foam brush soap, we don’t get a lot of business when it drops down into mid 20’s or lower.

 

[Earl Weiss]

You have to play with the tips according to the weather forecast.
A 30 gallon drum of Winter Foam brush soap KR30AF (Pink/Cherry Scent) from Kleen-Rite is $181.75. We don’t use a lot of the Winter Foam brush soap, we don’t get a lot of business when it drops down into mid 20’s or lower.

Kind of what I have been thinking. If I have to manualy play with the tips anyway, and without auto chamngeover I swap tips and a hose which really takes no extra time or effort. I am not really sure what the auto changeover saves me.

Do you think there is much loss of the glycol in the AF soap to evaporation?
Asking because I figured with % gallon pails the concentration stays higher since it remains sealed until use.

 

[ICEMAN1]

The automatic changeover will save you product when the temp gets above freezing on a busy day. My auto changeover switches on its own, no need for me to be there to make it happen. I also play with the tips depending on weather. Most of the time in my area it is a red or beige tip. I have a ginsan unit that came with my ultra system. I also did it with the ball valves and two tanks along time ago, would not go back to that. On kr anti freeze soap I use

red down to 20
beige down to 10
black down to 0
grey down to -10

I set the timer on the changeover so it gets out to the last bay.