aca carwash 2
Member
Which Friction wash machine would you say is the best on the market today?
Friction wash machines
- Thread starter aca carwash 2
- Start date
MEP001
Well-known member
I was going to say that too, but it's important to have a good, knowledgeable distributor local to you. IMO that should be a bigger part of your decision than the machine.
robert roman
Bob Roman
The goal and objective of most companies is profit maximization. Otherwise, the organization is either a non-profit or charity or the stakeholders are irrational.
So, what friction machine is “best” would be the one that “best” helps the company make money now and in the future.
A key factor in this is up-time or availability of machine which is a function of reliability and cost of ownership.
For example, Freestyler was suggested as best but on what basis? None is given.
A practical method or process to answer this question is to ask OEM’s for the specific information so you can evaluate and judge your own situation.
Availability can be calculated as up-time divided by downtime and cost of ownership can be obtained from a quotation.
So, what friction machine is “best” would be the one that “best” helps the company make money now and in the future.
A key factor in this is up-time or availability of machine which is a function of reliability and cost of ownership.
For example, Freestyler was suggested as best but on what basis? None is given.
A practical method or process to answer this question is to ask OEM’s for the specific information so you can evaluate and judge your own situation.
Availability can be calculated as up-time divided by downtime and cost of ownership can be obtained from a quotation.
You might as well ask if blondes are more fun than redheads. Let's be real here. EVERY machine out there can and will have issues. I am close to a brand new Freestyler that took two months to install and has been down several times. I am pretty sure that the same thing can be said about most machines. The things that I look for are a knowledgeable distributor that is relatively close, efficient operating economics, and somewhat cheap replacement parts. Yes there are differences that will affect your operation, but to say one is the best?
robert roman
Bob Roman
Again, it depends on situation. My experience has shown that redheads are generally more fun than blondes.
Similarly, there can be a “best” machine for a particular situation.
For example, dealers often define best machine as one has been designed to achieve the business objective plus on-time/on-budget installation, testing and follow through.
If it only takes about two weeks to install mini-tunnel, why does it take two months to install friction in-bay?
Typically, this occurs when there has been an error in the trade-off made between reliability and cost of ownership.
For example, if I was a new car dealer, I would buy a Broadway roll-over because it provides good wash and dry quality, very low operating expenses, unattended.
If I owned a stand-alone wash, I would buy an Autec express in-bay because its qualities, capacities and amenities are well more suited for the retail environment.
So, there can be a best machine.
Similarly, there can be a “best” machine for a particular situation.
For example, dealers often define best machine as one has been designed to achieve the business objective plus on-time/on-budget installation, testing and follow through.
If it only takes about two weeks to install mini-tunnel, why does it take two months to install friction in-bay?
Typically, this occurs when there has been an error in the trade-off made between reliability and cost of ownership.
For example, if I was a new car dealer, I would buy a Broadway roll-over because it provides good wash and dry quality, very low operating expenses, unattended.
If I owned a stand-alone wash, I would buy an Autec express in-bay because its qualities, capacities and amenities are well more suited for the retail environment.
So, there can be a best machine.
"Best machine" is a matter of opinion, experience, situation, trust. There are many variables involved.
All operators think differently and make up their mind through experience, trust/valued expertise of others. Trust build with the manufacturer, trust built with the distributor, or trusting your own ability if making repairs.
This is why I like to read on this forum. Someone posts a situation, problem or comment: Ten different car wash operators read it, and each could interpret it in 10 different ways or have ten different opinions.
All operators think differently and make up their mind through experience, trust/valued expertise of others. Trust build with the manufacturer, trust built with the distributor, or trusting your own ability if making repairs.
This is why I like to read on this forum. Someone posts a situation, problem or comment: Ten different car wash operators read it, and each could interpret it in 10 different ways or have ten different opinions.
Our Freestyler only took less than two weeks to install and has never had a mechanical failure. I only had to come down twice after getting an alarm for top wheel fault both of them being suburbans with school student signs attached to the roof exceeding my height limit. What you mentioned above MAC jas something to do with the installer not the machine. The Freestyler is a five brush system which keeps it well balanced and stable being on over head rails. The wide open bay look makes people feel invited not intimidated. Where something like a softgloss feels claustrophobic. I was a traditional touch-free only site now I have both. I have new customers and I have converted touch-free customers to soft touch. The programming on this machine is unlimited. You can adjust any drive speed, wheel rotation speed, the capability of turning on any output function you want single or with multiple outputs. I do my top wash with soap, 2 friction passes, trifoam, high pressure rinse, hot wax, DA, SF, and dry in 5:30 mins. Belanger also offers a three day training course to teach you every component of the machine a whole day of programming and a hands on PM on a local machine. Also the freestyler is a proven and field tested machine it has been out on the market over 10 years. It is also the most attractive friction machine too, in my opinion. In addition to the brushes are controlled by air over oil which is delicate to the car, adjustable, and cleans very well. This machine is far less complicated than my touch-free machines. ACA I would contact Dave Singer at Clean Edge I think he would be your Belanger distributor if you are in Maryland. I can go on about this machine. Let me know if you have any questions.
Also in my case I didn't have the greatest distributor and I do all of my own maintenance. Also what is nice about Belanger is you're not tide down to one distributor. You can buy parts directly from Belanger and not have to deal with your distributor.
aca carwash 2
Member
We put one in just over a year ago. It's a bit slower than any of the above mentioned machines. But it cleans great, and there isn't anymore wide open and inviting friction IBA IMO than the tandem, it's a very unique machine compared to the competition. Does dually's, etc..
aca carwash 2
Member
whats the maximum height to wash on the tandem, can you do any big vans?
The height the tandem equpiment itself allows is 7 foot 6 inches. Maybe even slightly higher. It's usually the free standing dryers or something else that limits height in our tandem, not the tandem itself.
I don't have a whole lot of experience with what the programming is like on other friction equipment, but because of the dual bridges, there are A LOT of ways to customize a wash package. There was a bit of a steep learning curve when we first put the machine in, which was compounded somewhat by our distributors limited experience with the machine. We are very hands on operators, we dug in hard with the machine and the programming. A year later, and I think the tandem is a great piece of equipment, and I'm extremely confident in its cleaning ability. We turn out a great looking car.
robert roman
Bob Roman
“I am surprised no comments on the PDQ tandem, it appears to be a good looking/working machine.”
Reasons may be time on market and process.
For example, Rite-Touch is two-brush system that touches vehicle 70 percent less than 5-brush systems.
So, its friction but actually it’s more a touch-less process. Touch-less has highest chemical, energy and water consumption. Market is moving in other direction.
So, why is it built? Consolidation has caused OEM’s to exit the industry and those remaining ones to compete hard for a share of a lot smaller pie.
Since there is still strong demand for touch-less in-bay, OEM’s must differentiate their products to capture share. This is why you see as many similarities among machines as differences.
“Any comments on the sonny's extreme express mini tunnel?”
Mini-tunnel is a conveyor. “Express” mini-tunnel is different business model than in-bay automatic within self-serve category.
Express exterior business model has low base price, hand-finish qualities, done in 4-minutes and free use vacuums.
Hourly capacity and wash quality of mini-tunnel is mostly a function of process and available space (length).
So, express mini-tunnel would require a transformation of the self-serve business.
Reasons may be time on market and process.
For example, Rite-Touch is two-brush system that touches vehicle 70 percent less than 5-brush systems.
So, its friction but actually it’s more a touch-less process. Touch-less has highest chemical, energy and water consumption. Market is moving in other direction.
So, why is it built? Consolidation has caused OEM’s to exit the industry and those remaining ones to compete hard for a share of a lot smaller pie.
Since there is still strong demand for touch-less in-bay, OEM’s must differentiate their products to capture share. This is why you see as many similarities among machines as differences.
“Any comments on the sonny's extreme express mini tunnel?”
Mini-tunnel is a conveyor. “Express” mini-tunnel is different business model than in-bay automatic within self-serve category.
Express exterior business model has low base price, hand-finish qualities, done in 4-minutes and free use vacuums.
Hourly capacity and wash quality of mini-tunnel is mostly a function of process and available space (length).
So, express mini-tunnel would require a transformation of the self-serve business.
aca carwash 2
Member
I had our chemical guy do a cost per car analysis for both of our automatics on every single wash package. It was based on how many ml's of each product is used per car on each wash, and then divided by the cost of an entire drum. I cannot speak for utility costs per car, as Robert pointed out.
When we first put the machine in, we had thought that we would quickly see the friction machine starts to get more use than the touchless, as everything we had read and researched suggested that to be the common trend. For us, it did not work that way. Maybe it had to do with the fact that our touchless machine already had an 8 year established history and customer base, or maybe it's because we have a tunnel down the street that does a 3 dollar wednesday. Whatever the case may be, we stuck with it, and did plenty of marketing. It took a good solid year, but now the tandem does consistently wash more cars than the washworld does.
There has been a common trend since day 1, that our average ticket price is higher in the tandem than the touchless. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Perhaps a friction carwash gives the appearance of getting more for your money. Little do they know it actually costs less to wash with friction
Over the last five years there has been a definite shift to friction washes. It is very difficult for a touch free unit to compete with a friction tunnel and in many cases a friction automatic. Years ago friction washes gained a reputation for damaging vehicles which in some cases it was warranted and in others not so much. Today with the new friction media and associated electronics friction has become more acceptable to motorists.
While chemical costs with friction are much less, normally maintenance is a little more time consuming and overall probably a little more expensive. In the end it is up to the operator to decide what would be the best choice for his customer base taking into consideration the competition in their area.
While chemical costs with friction are much less, normally maintenance is a little more time consuming and overall probably a little more expensive. In the end it is up to the operator to decide what would be the best choice for his customer base taking into consideration the competition in their area.
aca carwash 2
Member
Thanks rph9168, can you provide any further insight on the last paragraph? I have a sight I built and opened in January 2003, 2 new touch free DS 5000's, 2 ss bays, (no credit card options), 7 vacs, rug shampoo and fragrance. best year we averaged 450 cars a week in touch less and 245k that year. we have a high traffic count area of local traffic, rarely get snow and we have not upgraded any car wash equipment and everything was new when we opened. looking to upgrade and searching for the best options.......my nearest competitor has a water wizard and a nu star friction. he also has 5 ss bays he offers $5 unlimited wash time. five miles away we have an older full service tunnel. we also have an operator who bought a site near a Walmart that wasn't doing well and put in an express tunnel offering 29.99 month unlimited wash, it also has a touch less and 4-5 ss bays, isn't the best location but seems to be doing fair at best. we are a stones throw from a very busy McDonalds.
I believe overall the cost of running and maintaining a friction machine may or may not be slightly less than touch free but you have to look beyond the savings in chemicals. As I stated while chemical costs may be less there is much more to maintain with a friction wash including the wear and tear on cloth/foam media, periodic tension adjustments on the brushes and more hydraulics or electric (depending on the type of motors) to deal with. I think you should base your decision more on what your competition is (friction or touch free) and what appeals more to your customers.
