Fusion X brush load low

[Greg Pack]

Hey Guys , I've got gremlins on my fusion X. I am getting an alarm that both my right and top brush load is too low. The unit takes the offending brush out of service until it is re-calibrated and reset. This started on both brushes about two months ago around the same time, and seems to be getting progressively worse. As far as I can tell the gearboxes and motors are OK, so I think it is something else is causing the alarm, perhaps a faulty AD04 card. I've called Coleman but they're not sure what could cause the problem.

If figure it's a longshot, but if anyone has any experience with this I'd appreciate some input. Thanks!

 

[robblackburn]

Hey Greg - I can almost guarantee you that this is a mechanical problem. The re-calibration may work for a while but the problem is that when the machine is washing a car the brushes are moving/wobbling and causing different reading than you get at rest. With the front brushes I would first check the gear box that spins the brushes. Look for leaking oil at the bottom. If you add oil and then re-calibrate then it will solve the problem for a little until the gear box eventually fails. If you are sure that gearbox is ok then look at the carriage. When the white wheels on the carriage wear it lets allot of slop in the the carriage and this will cause the load draws to vary which will shut down the unit. In addition make sure that have the black rubber stops in place. If they are worn replace. Lastly, there is a bearing in the center of the carriage that can become worn. This is difficult/impossible to replace and I just order new front arm carriage at this point. Also if the shaft has a wobble then this will wear out the gear box early and cause the load problems that you are describing. Just give me a call if need any help.

Rob

 

[Greg Pack]

Thanks Rob, I'll take a closer look at things from the mechanical standpoint than I have been. I just figured since the problem with two brushes started within a week of each other it had to be something else that the two had in common.

 

[robblackburn]

They probably both have in common that they are old and worn out and just need some attention. It can take some time to figure out but just have to keep eliminating things. Good luck

 

[carwashireland]

Its also worth checking out both motor windings and the cable feeding the motors. The cable cores may be breaking down. This can be really hard to find but is worth considering if the mechanical side checks out.

 

[robblackburn]

Very true on checking the wire to the motors. I have had to replace one and it looked perfect but it had a bad spot somewhere and the replacement fixed problem.

 

[Greg Pack]

Yes, new wires was a consideration for today. It's been slow lately and as usual I can't easily replicate the problem. I've been trying small changes and then wait to see if the unit malfunctions. Since electrical seems to be a less expensive option and I can't find any obvious mechanical issues I've been looking towards that way.

I'll keep you guys posted.....

 

[Greg Pack]

Again, just trying things that the two motors have in common because the problems started at the same time and the motors are of very different ages. The side brush motor was replaced last year and has only 10K or so friction washes on it. However, I'm running out of electrical issues to look at

So far with no perceived fix:

swapped AD04 analog card (admittadly with a used card I bought for cheap)
replaced SO cord going to top brush
Checked inlet wiring at left brush VFD to ensure no loose connections looping downstream to the top brush and right brush
replaced analog cable going to gantry
swapped srm21 I/O buses with each other (analog and digital) on PLC
megged both motors, results came back as both OK

The top brush faulted today, just an hour after replacing the SO cord.

This afternoon I swapped the left and right brush VFD on the outside chance that the problem followed the VFD.

I may swap the SO cord on the right brush tomorrow, but after that I guess the next step is new motors/gearboxes if the unit still faults out.

 

[carwashireland]

Ive never worked on a fusionx but i assume that load is too low indicates that it expects the current on the rotation motors goes up to a mininum setting after it initial calibration when it starts. Is this happening at certain times of the day? Its worth monitoring the voltage coming in. If this is dropping during peak times it could cause the current to fluctuate. I cant see it being a motor fault unless bearings were wearing. You should hear them if that were the case.

 

[Greg Pack]

On a fusion X, you establish a "baseline" load for brushes spinning in free air by running a "no load" test. It stores this value, and uses it to compare the load during a wash. If it senses too much load during a wash it backs the brush off a car a bit. If it sees a very high amount, it will stop the brush during that wash, but will retest and use the brush again on the next vehicle.

However, if the PLC senses way too little load (as in my case) It assumes there has been a gearbox failure or the shaft has come uncoupled from the gearbox, etc. It treats this low load as a semi-fatal error that must be diagnosed and remedied by a human, so it turns the offending brush off until I come in, reset, and re calibrate it.

I've watched it wash many times, but have never directly witnessed the actual point where the brushes stopped. Of course, as soon as I leave it's presence it faults out. While testing I have tried to aggravate the situation by operating brushes in all carriage positions and pushing on it and grabbing it while it spins. I've yet to see or hear anything that leads me to believe the gearboxes are bad. As far as motor health, the motors megged out OK. But I'm quickly running out of things to try. I have thought of swapping right and left brush motor gearbox.

I could see where losing a power leg could cause a problem, but I assume I would be getting error messages on other gantry motors as well. I have looked at the SO cord taking three phase to the gantry and didn't see anything obvious. On further thought, The analog feedback to the PLC I assume is pretty rapid, and perhaps all is takes is a fraction of a second to cause that error. No one that works now at Coleman seems to know.

One thing I will say, the fusion X cleans well when it runs properly, but makes the wizard 2.0 looks as simple as a bowling ball. I'm probably going to start charging an extra $1 for friction washes, just to cover the cost of added maintenance and repairs.

 

[carwashireland]

One thing I would say is that these intermitent problems that are really tough to pinpoint normally get worse which makes them easier to diagnose. Also I have found that all friction iba washes make a touchless look simple.

 

[Greg Pack]

Potential good news. This morning I found an open fuse in the fuseholder between the left brush and top brush. I had checked continuity before on the outside terminals and found all had continuity. so assumed all was OK. I also found another one blown near the oscillating motor. My understanding is these connect back to the DC Bus. I assumed the motors would not operate at all with a blown fuse, but apparently mine will. The supply house should have replacement fuses for me this afternoon. I will replace the fuses, cross my fingers, and say a little prayer.

 

[carwashireland]

Next problem. Why did they blow and what do they supply. Good luck!

 

[Greg Pack]

Happy but frustrated! Apparently a blown fuse between the left brush and top brush VFDs was the culprit. I replaced it Monday and haven't seen the alarm since.

The fuses at the VFDs are connected to the DC bus and help share the load on the control circuitry. I'm still not sure I understand how good they are at protecting things if the load is wired in such a way that it can backfeed from another source. I'm gonna take a closer look at the VFD docs today.

The unit will run with a blown fuse in place, but I assume because of the ability for the voltage to backfeed through an unintentional source it was enough for it to "kinda" run. However, I assume the backfeeding situation was causing a voltage sag of some sort when multiple VFDs were running. That's my current theory why the problem wouldn't show up on a single brush test, but when all VFDs were running it may have been too much load. The analog card uses measures a DC voltage signal from the VFD to measure load and interpreted the low voltage as low load.

Anyway, through all this I re-learned a painful lesson. I mistakenly checked the fuse early on by checking continuity on the fuse holder terminals. If I had done that earlier I would have saved myself about twenty-forty hours of grief over the past few weeks. From now on anytime I have strange problems all fuses will be removed and checked.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I hope this post helps someone in the future. As bad as my memory is it might be me.......

 

[JGinther]

See, that is the problem with knowing too much. If you only knew a little bit, you would have checked the fuses first because thats just what you do. Then you would have pulled the fuses out because you didn't have a meter or know how to work it, and would have replaced the one that looked burned. HA! On a separate note, Coleman has always tied the DC buses together for a reason unknown to me. Possibly undersized VFD's? Sometimes you can eliminate surges from load deceleration by common busing, but there isn't much flywheel affect with the gearboxes and brushes... I know the older wizards operate just fine after removing all of the common busing. I am not sure of the FusionX though...

 

[Greg Pack]

Yep, not sure either. I have had more than one person tell me they have had no problems with DC busses disconnected. I was told the Fusion will not run at all with them disconnected. My personal experience has shown otherwise.

 

[txheat]

Sorry we havent had this problem but on the other hand we get bunch of "overload TB" alarms. Right now we having alarm 100 for "Measurement eye did not come on at start" and it keep saying Backup instead of Drive forward. Technicians changed out eyes, wires, and now new eyes that are hardwired and still nothing. Monday i think they gona change out the card. grrr...Its almost 4 years of FusionX and im up to the point im gona scrap this junk and go express.

 

[txheat]

Happy but frustrated! Apparently a blown fuse between the left brush and top brush VFDs was the culprit. I replaced it Monday and haven't seen the alarm since.

So the fuse you talking about is on the gantry or in the gantry panel? or located in the red lion panel?

 

[Greg Pack]

The fuses are located in fuse holders on the gantry between the VFD's

Just talked to a friend the other day that had crazy problems with his drive motor. It would run very, very, slowly when washing. But it would move at a normal speed when he switched the unit in manual mode. After replacing the motors with no luck, they found a bad fuse betwee one of the VFDs.

From now on, If I encounter any weird problems related to any motors on the gantry, I will be checking the fuses as S.O.P. I would recommend checking them for your tire brush problem, but doubt it will be an issue with your measurement eye.

Your lack of measurement eye signal is why your gantry is giving "back up" directions on the sign. It sounds like they are proceeding logically at this point. eyes, then cables, then input card. I have had to replace a bad input card before. It is tedious to remove/replace all the wires, but simple. I will warn you that when an eye goes bad and shorts it can take out channel on the OD16 output card. Coleman did not fuse it. I installed a small inline fuse to hopefully protect it. I recommend you consider that.



Yes, I agree the fusion X can be a handful. It is indeed easier to maintain an express tunnel.