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Good soap to try

area123

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Another newbie question. I've searched and found some soaps that get descent reviews but figures I might as well ask the guys who use them the most.

The current soap used in the wash is a powder called Power clean by Autoshine formula 9115 I think. The owner said he was paying $145 a box after freight. Most I've seen are about $70 a box and maybe $25 freight. So is his powder that much better? IVe used the wash quite a bit and don't find it to perform much different than any other wash. But don't know what they use either.

I've found most powders I could get for less than $100 a box (50 lbs) shipped.

Oh, if it matters the water is softened and we have spot free rinse, no wax yet but plan to add high pressure wax. If any of that matters in soap selection.

So which ones do you guys like?
 

cdreed06

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When we first started we were ordering chemicals online and having them shipped. For one thing I had no idea what I was doing and the shipping was outrageous. Then when we bought our automatic machine we met our machine salesman/chemical guy. Now he knows the chemicals inside and out and whenever we have any issues we call him and he helps us out. Also, he makes rounds with the chemicals so we don't pay shipping. Its a great thing.
The softened water does make a big difference. Are you wanting to stay with a powder? Do you have different powders for different selections? HP Soap, foam brush, presoak etc?
 

Earl Weiss

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If you are taliking IBA you are talking a different animal.

Use Kleen Rite Cherry Blossim for Foam Brush and their low PH Product for Pre soak and HP soap. Kleen White for Wheel cleaner and their Sealer wax. If you buy enough shipping is included and typicaly April - June they have their buy 3 get one free sale.

Learned about KR on this forum and it save me boatloads. Do not know how to compare dilutions vis a vis powders.
 

area123

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I'm not sure if powder or liquid is better. Powder seems to be cheaper and it works well in his wash.

Basically there are 3 large tubs for high pressure soap and he mixes a large scoop maybe 2 lbs with about 30 gallons of water in each tub. Then it's metered from the tubs.

For presoak and brush foam he uses 5 gallon liquids of auto shine's presoak and foaming cleaner product.

I guess I need to know the pros and cons of liquid vs powder.

Thanks
 

Randy

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It sounds to me like the owner now is mixing the chemicals/soap by hand in a large tub and then it’s metered to the pumps. If that’s the case what he’s doing it very old school, I haven’t seen that since the late 70’s. How big are the tubs that he mixing the chemicals/soap in? Does he have any Hydrominders? My chemical mixing tanks are small about 2 ½ gallons. I buy my chemicals from Kleen-Rite in the Spring when they have free shipping and buy 3 get 1 free sale, I buy enough to last until the next Spring. I use JBS Fonic https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-1115-jbs-fonic-wash-power-concentrate-5-gallon.aspx in the High pressure gun and in the Foam brush, for Presoak I use the powered “Inbay Turbo Powder” in the 50 lbs box, Part #: KRTP50. It’s $67.25 per 50 lb Box. You might to keep doing what the previous owner is doing for a while. Pictures are always nice.
 

area123

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I did take some pics. I'll try to post again later today.

He is mixing the powder in big tubs, 30 gallons maybe. This is for high pressure soap only. He says the 90 gallons will last about a month. It's not a very busy wash. He have hydro minders for the presoak and tire brush foam, those use buckets of liquid product.

So for your powder presoak do you mix by hand? Or is there a dispenser that can measure and meter the powder too?
 

2Biz

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All powder chemicals has to be pre-mixed. But most people mix powder at a ratio that is then diluted using a hydrominder. Like your PS and FB....A 5 gallon bucket of soap properly mixed will probably last you a month or more. Probably closer to 2 months. Switching to a hydrominder would also free up a lot of space.
 

Randy

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So for your powder presoak do you mix by hand? Or is there a dispenser that can measure and meter the powder too?
This is how I mix the Presoak powder I use so I get a consistent mix. I mix 72.5 oz. of Powder with 5 gallons of water in a 15 gallon container and then dilute it 90-1 with the Hydrominder. I use a digital scale to weigh the powder and store it in plastic containers until I need to use it, I usually weigh out 5 or 6 - 72.5 oz . batches at a time.
 

area123

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Thanks Randy
He has small tanks for presoak and tire foam that pull right out of a 5 gallon bucket and into the small wall mounted tanks. I'm guessing those are the hydrominders, they have floats and air hoses going to them. They are low pressure.

So why do u premix powder for presoak instead of using liquid? Is it cheaper or better to use powder? Or just personal preference?

Current owner tells me his buckets are about $65 but I'm not sure what ratio he uses or how long they last.

Thanks
 

cantbreak80

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area123,

There are several sources for car wash supplies in OK and surrounding states:
Jim Coleman Co. and Kleen-rite in Texas. Dultmeier is located in Omaha. HPWS and Lee Soap in CO. There are several equipment/chemical distributors in OKC. And, there’s likely a regional blender or two nearby.

As for powder vs. liquid…choose your version.
Liquid is generally more expensive, but easy to deal with…set it up and replace the jug when needed. You’ll want a Hydrominder or similar mixologist to produce the ready-to-use juice. Most modern liquids are highly concentrated with big dilution ratios that will serve many customers. Once it’s set-up properly it’s about as close to “Set it and forget it” as you can get. Finally, because it’s mixed as needed the blend tanks can be quite small…like less than 5 gallons total capacity. (Mine are half filled and have been feeding a busy 8-bay without issue for over 20 years)

On the other hand, unless you’ve got some ph-sensored automatic blend system with an electronic controller and circulator pump, powders insist on being manually mixed with water and are not without their issues. Generally less expensive, because you’re not buying the water used to blend liquid concentrates, they sometimes contain non-reactive fillers. Mixed to saturation, they sometimes come out of suspension, requiring occasion stirring. I believe the biggest issue with large solution tubs is inconsistent delivery to the bays. I’ll explain:

Most car wash pumps are fed with a constant supply of fresh water from a “Rinse” tank. Concentrated soap is fed to the pump’s water inlet where it mixes with the rinse water. The pump’s inlet suction aids in drawing the concentrated soap into the pump.

When the soap tank is full (30 gallons) the weight of the water “pushes” the soap into the pump…GREAT soap! As the soap tank level diminishes, so does the weight…Still GOOD soap. If the soap tank level approaches empty, significantly less weight…NOT SO GOOD soap.

So, operators learn to maintain the level by replenishing the soap tank regularly. Ah…except when they’re busy or chasing demons. Inevitably, that’s when a customer says “Hey! There’s no soap!” The quick solution is to dump a scoop of soap into the tub. The customer is happy and you go back to dealing with whatever had your attention. Or, you’re adding soap and water to the tub and an old friend stops by. You hang out, solving the world’s problems and totally forget about the running water! Now, how much soap overflowed to the floor drain? What’s the strength of the mix? What do you do now? Dump it and start over or just guess and add a few more scoops? Anybody with this system who says that’s never happened to them is not being honest.

Finally, I’ll submit that there’s really only about seven ways to make soap…and every blender knows all seven ways. There's a reason for “cheap” and a reason for “expensive”. Choose your juice for its safe, cleaning qualities rather than the price per box/bucket. A $50 box that’s half soda ash and doesn’t clean well will end up costing a lot more than you might think. Just for comparison, I use a nationally advertised brand, purchased from their local distributor. It’s an outstanding solution with great cleaning and aroma. It’s very sudsy while also being reasonably free-rinsing. Last time I tested it costs me about 5cents per minute at the wand. I’d be happy if it cost 10cents per minute…(just don’t tell my supplier or those juice peddlers who want me to switch to their “better/cheaper” solutions.)
 

area123

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Oh he does have all 3 tanks connected and the 3rd is a reserve tank with a valve he can just open. So I won't have to worry about keeping all 3 full or running out in 1 bay before the others. I bet he just has it setup this way with these huge tanks because he's always done it that way. Even though he built this wash completely new in 2004 or so, he had a wash in this location since 1968. So I bet these big stainless tubs might be left from one of his old car washes.

I will probably keep doing what he's been doing until I learn my own way.

I like the idea of stocking up from Kleen rite during their spring sale. They don't sell his brand but hopefully something theybhave will work.
 

Greg Pack

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The SS business is a lot of show business.

High pressure soap is mostly show. You will see claims they all clean, etc. You can get into the science of cleaning rationalize the detergent molecules should help cleaning by wetting agents and the hydrophillic/hydrophobic action, blah,blah,blah. But I've never found a product that does much more than water to the naked eye. i have tried at least a dozen different brands over the years and no high pressure detergent I am familiar with will get road film off. I am open minded to try one if anyone has one they swear by. But for now I use Kleen rite's "Orange Cream" just because it smells soooooooo good. BTW, kleen rite is offering free shipping this month for orders over $750

Foam Brush soap is mostly a lubricating foam with added colors and scents and no real cleaning ability. It relies on the customer to scrub the dirt off and the foam helps prevent scratching of the surface. Although in winter months I use a product as a FB detergent with some alkalinity, most operators do not. Most FB detergents should work about 100:1 ratio.

Where you can really make a difference in the wash quality for the customer is in the presoak, tire cleaner, and clear coat products. Many operators shy away from products with true cleaning ability for fear of the product drying on the car and causing issues. Modern vehicles are very tough and can take more alkalinity than most think. They have to be used with caution as the weather gets warm but safe products are out there. But again many operators often result to self serve products with lots of show and little cleaning ability,and their performance ranges from absolutely sucky to mediocre.

The most effective presoaks I have found are alkaline presoaks designed as liquid presoaks for in bay automatics. They have more alkalinity than SS preosaks. I currently use scotch plaids "extreme" at a ratio of about 48:1 as a SS presoak. That product will also work as a HP detergent at a much weaker dilution and even a foam brush detergent at around 90-100:1

Tire cleaners are the worst. Most of the SS tire products produce a brilliant green foam at a dilution rate that is way weaker than it needs to be to actually clean the wheel and tire. Being the tightwads we are, operators tend to dial back the product until it still looks good, but is too weak to effectively clean. IMO, The foam should turn brown when it hits a dirty tire.

Trial and error are the best teachers. When you put a presoak or tire product online, ignore the "show" ask yourself if you are satisfied with its' cleaning performance. If not, increase the strength or try something else.

I have fooled with powders in the past, but prefer the simplicity of liquids.
 
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ToFarGone

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"huge tanks"? Didn't you say they were 30 gallon each? My tank is buried in the ground and holds 1000 gallons of concentrate. I put in 400 pounds of powder to fill it. That's about 125/ bay when you divide it out (8 bays). Keep an eye on those guys when you start rocking and rolling. You might go through it faster than you think.


Oh he does have all 3 tanks connected and the 3rd is a reserve tank with a valve he can just open. So I won't have to worry about keeping all 3 full or running out in 1 bay before the others. I bet he just has it setup this way with these huge tanks because he's always done it that way. Even though he built this wash completely new in 2004 or so, he had a wash in this location since 1968. So I bet these big stainless tubs might be left from one of his old car washes.

I will probably keep doing what he's been doing until I learn my own way.

I like the idea of stocking up from Kleen rite during their spring sale. They don't sell his brand but hopefully something theybhave will work.
 

area123

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"huge tanks"? Didn't you say they were 30 gallon each? My tank is buried in the ground and holds 1000 gallons of concentrate. I put in 400 pounds of powder to fill it. That's about 125/ bay when you divide it out (8 bays). Keep an eye on those guys when you start rocking and rolling. You might go through it faster than you think.
Well huge relatively speaking, the low pressure tanks are less than 5 gallons and these big tubs take up a good 1/3rd of the space in the pump house. And I've heard some say on here that they use small tanks with hydrominders and liquid soap in 5 gallon buckets, which would take up less space than my setup. I'm guessing all 3 tubs are about 100 gallons but I don't really know yet. And 40 lbs of soap last him about a month, so we're talking small volume here. But we hope to improve upon that.
 

area123

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Stuart

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Another newbie question. I've searched and found some soaps that get descent reviews but figures I might as well ask the guys who use them the most.

The current soap used in the wash is a powder called Power clean by Autoshine formula 9115 I think. The owner said he was paying $145 a box after freight. Most I've seen are about $70 a box and maybe $25 freight. So is his powder that much better? IVe used the wash quite a bit and don't find it to perform much different than any other wash. But don't know what they use either.

I've found most powders I could get for less than $100 a box (50 lbs) shipped.

Oh, if it matters the water is softened and we have spot free rinse, no wax yet but plan to add high pressure wax. If any of that matters in soap selection.

So which ones do you guys like?

I have used 9115 over 4 years and works well for me. You might go to KOmfg.com and find a distributer for the soap (do not buy from manufacturer- many MFG charge more than a distributer).
My cost is about half w/ shipping. If it works well and you can be sure costs are not too high, I would stick with what's working. Get a titrate kit to test your soap. (titrate at 14 for starters HP soap) I mix a 100gal barrel and this supplies my IBA, HP soap and my PS. My total chemical cost is 4.6% of total income. Probably higher than most but I like what I have and give enough to the customer.

What city are you in?
 

Wanyesst

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It seems that it is better to use a special powder that will perfectly fight stains and dirt. It is brought in special containers and you do not need to use a lot of water to wash it off, and it foams well. But after it you need to use a special wax for cars, then the effect will be much cooler. However, if you decide to use this powder and knead by hand, it is better to buy a special soap for your workers. Our personal favorite recently read about the dangers of all chemical hand powders on this site. So it is better to take care of your employees and their health.
 
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AutoUnlimited

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The local car wash in my town uses turtle wax and it seems to work pretty good you could also check them out as an option
 
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