How Hard Should I Squeeze a Repeat Trash Dumper?

[Sequoia]

Some time ago, a trash dumper dropped off many bags of trash plus a used and partially full 5 gal container of oil-based stain. I caught it on video, ran the license plate, and send a warning letter to knock it off.

Today, someone from the very same household (brother?) came and dropped 4 big bags of trash in the dumpster. Didn't use any car wash services, of course.

Here is what I am considering:
- Send a letter and photo from surveillance cameras documenting the event;
- Require payment of $15/bag ($60 total) in lieu of me calling the Sheriff;
- Require signature on a Mutual Release and Agreement including an agreement to cease further dumping; and,
- Require the $60 check be made out to my favorite local charity, not me.

I'm curious to learn how folks in the industry perceive my possible response. I'm a little concerned about soliciting a payment in lieu of filing a police report, as I don't know if that is something that is frowned upon, or worse.

And, I'm curious to learn how it would be perceived to have the check made out to a local charity instead of me. I'm really wanting to avoid an appearance of "shaking down" someone who dumps trash in exchange for a monetary payment, but I also want to apply some consequences to a repeat offender as my earlier letter didn't work.

My wash is in a small town where word spreads rapidly, so I gotta do this right the first time ....

What do you think?

 

[Jim L.]

First offence, I either put their trash on their front porch with a note saying the car wash is not the "city dump" or sling their bags of garbage into their front yards. I keep a log.

Second offence. I turn them in to the county "trash police" which earns them a $500 fine for illegal dumping.

Very seldon do I have a second offender. These people are not goood customers and you should not be concerned that you "**** them off".

 

[MEP001]

Theft is theft, whether it's bank robbery or theft of services. The idea of a "fine" payable to a charity is a good one, but I'd give it a limited time offer with the promise of involving the police if they don't pony up. If you have a rappor with an officer, maybe he can hand-deliver your offer.

I quit worrying about ****ing off the "undesirables" some time ago, and it's gotten where I almost never have to ask someone to turn down music or not wash out a bed or not back up to the dumpster with a mattress, where it used to be at least one an hour. In the meantime we're steadily getting busier, so it's sure not hurting.

 

[Reds]

I just had a hearing on Friday. I caught a woman on camera dumping 2 bags of trash on the ground beside the dumpster. I called the state police and had her cited for "scattering rubbish" which carries a $200 fine in Pa. She disputed it, scheduled a hearing, and lied like hell. I was prepared with notes, pictures of the trash, etc. They fined her $50. I can tolerate a lot of mud, and what I call vehicle trash. But when they dump their household trash anywhere on my site (in or out of dumptster) I show no mercy and do not want them on my site for any reason at any time. Incidently, I am in a small town also, and I keep my dumpster locked.

 

[wendy's wash]

Be careful

I had an ice cream truck restocking their truck at my wash. They dumped old ice cream and the boxes from new stocked items on their truck. When the ice cream melted it drained down the drive. Well I don't have good cameras and was not able to know who it was. Went thru trash and they also dumped their mail. Got address and went to their house. 2 ice cream trucks in drive way. Rang door bell and a young kid answered and I asked for the owner of the trucks. He said he was and I said it was against the law to dump at my place. I said if he did it again it was trespassing and he was being legally warned. He became hostile and got right in my face and said got off his property. I did, but he never dumped again. Call the city trash department and let them go to his house. They will go and confront the home owner. I now call the city and they take care of the problem.

 

[bigleo48]

This weekend I had a guy at the vacs tell me that he was the person I had caught a couple of years back for dumping tires. He told me that he didn't know that was illegal and that he thought "it was ok to just leave your stuff". I told him that being ignorant of the law is no defense.

Also, a while back I posted at sign at my dumpster saying something like "Dumping is theft of services, you are being video recorded and all would be prosecuted to the full extend of the law". I have not had a dumper since.

Big Leo

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

I am in a very small town.
First offense, I call the police, they call the person and tell them to come pick up their trash before 8AM the next morning or charges will be pressed. (They always do.)
Second offense I call the police, press charges. Period.

FYI, I admit this was hard for me to do for the first couple of years I owned a wash, I wanted to be a nice guy, didnt want to tick people off, didnt want to anger customers, and all kinds of other rationalizations. Now I know better, this falls into the no-brainer category for me. Call the cops.

 

[Sequoia]

The squeeze

I mailed the letter and demand for payment today. I gave the dumper 10 days to pay up or face me going to the Sheriff.

I wasn't able to have the notice hand delivered as the dumper has a vacation cabin near my wash but lives full time over 3 hours away.

I'll be interested to see how this plays out ...

 

[Earl Weiss]

Small towns are great. I can just see the Chicago police department being interested in this.

Anyway, I wonder how your local cops draw the line between what is "Legal" waste disposal and what is supposedly illegal? I assume all washes have trash receptacles. Some vehicles have more trash and some have less. I can see a 15 passenger van of High School athletes having gone thru the drive thru leaving a sizeable amount of trash.

So, when does legal trash disposal become "Illegal" trash dumping.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

So, when does legal trash disposal become "Illegal" trash dumping.

Here in PA, trash dumping is prosecuted under the crimes code 6501. Any commercial trash, household trash, excessive quantities of trash, or leaving anything without patronizing the business is illegal. (As explained to me by an officer who had prosecuted several of these cases in court.)

Funny thing - I've actually had customers chase trash dumpers &/or call the police. More than once.
Yeah, I know - rural small town. Thats part of why I choose to live here. And I do my part to keep it this way.

 

[Louise]

What I want to know is what type of cameras you have that capture tags??

 

[Earl Weiss]

This says nothing about depositing trash if you are not a customer.

The Criminal Code (Title 18)
Section 6501. Scattering Rubbish (as amended)
(A) Offense defined -- A person is guilty of an offense if he:

(1) throws any waste paper, sweepings, ashes, household waste, glass, metal, refuse or rubbish, or any dangerous or detrimental substance into or upon any road, street, highway, or alley, or upon the land of another or into or upon any stream or navigable river;

[or]

(2) interferes with, scatters, or disturbs the contents of any receptacle containing ashes, garbage, household waste, or rubbish;

[or]

(3) is the operator of a trash, garbage or debris collection vehicle or any other type of vehicle used for collecting trash, garbage or debris and deposits the vehicle's load or any part thereof upon any road, street, highway or alley or upon the land of another.

(B) Penalty --

(1) A person who violates [the provisions of this section] subsection (A)(1) or (2) is guilty of a summary offense and upon conviction thereof shall be sentenced to pay a fine of not less than $10 nor more than $300 or to imprisonment for not more than 90 day, or both.

(2) A person who violates subsection (A)(3) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree for the first offense, a misdemeanor of the second degree for the second offense and a misdemeanor of the first degree for the third or any subsequent offense.

(3) Exception -- Subsection (A)(3) does not apply to the lawful depositing of waste at any site regulated by the Department of Environmental Protection.

 

[Randy]

Duane,
Don?t write letters to the guy, he?ll just ignore them, threats of going to the Sheriff will also be ignored. Just call the police from the beginning and force them handle it. I always ask for a restitution form which I always fill out, I think it adds a little something to the case. I had to go toe to toe with the chief of Police before they?d get off there butts and do anything. All he could say when I was in his face was?I don?t like the way you?re talking to me? and my reply was? Just do your job and I won?t be in your face? believe me it was ugly. Now when I call there?s action. Sure it?s against the law and they know it is, if they don?t they?ve been under a rock to long. Keep us posted.

 

[MEP001]

What I want to know is what type of cameras you have that capture tags??

I used a Sony camera with a zoom lens - the lens is the most critical part. From 100+ feet away I have no trouble getting tags.

Just kidding:

 

[MEP001]

The camera I used was a $500 Sony, but I've bought several from Panvigor since that are every bit as good, have actual Sony chipsets in them and cost a third as much. This one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-3-Sony-CCD-D-...48629QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

has much better specs than the Sony I installed. The DVR is terrible, otherwise the image would be much, much sharper - I'm building a separate PC-based DVR just for the tag cameras since with my current setup I can only read 2 out of 3 tags at best.

 

[Sequoia]

To capture license plates, I use two 5x50mm varifocal cameras, and I have one camera zoomed tight on the entrance and one camera zoomed tight on the exit. I also have the capture frame rate set at 30fps for each camera. Between the two of these cameras, I can capture most plates-- not all, but most, and sometimes not real clearly but clear enough.

I believe the code section in California are Penal Code statute 374.3(a). You can google it for details but it says that it is an offense to dump trash on private property without the owner's permission. There is also a local County code section in my County and this is what the Sheriff has used in the past when dumpers were cited. In addition to the driver’s liability for dumping, I believe that in California the vehicle is subject to impoundment under California Vehicle Code Section 23112.7

I put all of that in my letter to the dumper. I'll be curious if he ignores it and if I don't have any contact within the 10 day period. I can always escalate it at the point ....

 

[DavidMD5]

I used to confront people myself, but I always would find something broken the next day. Now I always let the police confront the people. Its safer and they never come back to break stuff.

 

[LisaLyons]

Good luck - let us know what happens. I like Penal Code 374.4(b) - about it being illegal to litter on public or private property (including paper, cig butts etc.) except in designated containers. I think if the cops could hang out at my wash for a few weeks and fine everyone that throws things out of their car right on the ground next to the trash can they could make enough money to balance the state budget.

 

[Sequoia]

Muhaha.

I got a $60 payment from the trash dumper today. Along with the signed Mutual Release and Agreement. The payment was made to the charity I specified in my letter demanding payment.

 

[pitzerwm]

Good, some people just need their butts kicked to respect others.