Mixing Your Own Car Wash Chemicals

[Buzzie8]

Has anyone investigated mixing their own car wash chemicals to save $$$. I was wondering if it was feasible to have a chemist take your chemicals, reverse engineer them and then mix your own chemicals based on their findings (of course, you could tweak them to meet your individual needs). I was considering doing this for my presoak products. I know the main ingredients but do not have volumes for each. Any comments would be welcomed.

 

[chadrpalmer]

you must be careful you do not infringe on any patents, some companies have spent millions developing these chemicals, if i were a chemical company, and you did this, i would consider that stealing from me

 

[Buzzie8]

I completely understand, but when it comes to something like an Alkaline powder that I am paying $100 for 50lbs of powder and I think it is probably something very easy to buy in bulk I think it is worth exploring. I think many of the car wash chemical companies were formed by car wash owners who thought they could take a product that was already out there and formulate it and improve on it and hopefully at a lower price. I would be very surprised if any company who is in this industry did not do some "reverse engineering" of their own. It's not my intention to steal a companies idea but more to understand the components that create a good wash experience and how to buy them in bulk.

 

[rph9168]

You seem to think that formulating your own chemicals would be a piece of cake. Lots of luck.

Most reputable chemical companies spend a lot of money on product development. In addition to formulating expenses there is field testing that can be very expensive. It is very rare indeed, if ever, for them to come up with a good product on the first try. It usually takes a series of tests each time before they come up with a quality product. In addition they buy the ingredients in very large quantities to reduce the overall cost. I would venture to guess that if you came up with a good formula it would probably cost you more to make it than the product you are trying to replace considering the small amounts of ingredients you would be purchasing not to mention the labor and equipment involved in the mixing process.

For the little money you think you might save in chemicals your business would be better served directing your energy into improving your overall operation and developing a better marketing and sales approach.

 

[jjw]

Buzzie8: Don't do it! Car wash detergents aren't that difficult. Here is the catch, 11372 pages of local, state, and fed. regulations will hammer you. I owned a Industrial supply co. for a number of years and handled a large varity of chems. Some were bad, bad and worst. The chem. enginners who worked for me were good and that keep me out of the microscope. Just buy a good powder from a established supplier, test it for your own satisfaction and cost it out, if your happy do it. Contact me if you want a one on one. Have a great day! jjw

 

[Chiefs]

Find a supplier whose products come in concentrated form, that way you're not paying for 10 gallons of prducts and 45 gallons of water.

Also, when you mix concentrates, be very careful about the quality of the water you use. hard water and a high TDS count can certainly hinder a products performance. Part of the beneit of buying your solutions from reputable companies goes a long way to ensure quality products and consistent performance. Also, if something (either a new product or one you've been using) does not work well or as well, you're complaint won't fall of deaf ears.

Blending chemicals is more involved than just knowing a formula, buying the raw materials and getting a mixing paddle.

That said, if you're looking to cut costs on lubricating soap for your cloth, foam for a foam arch, or brush prep solution, I highly recommend you try a product called Witconate 90 Flake. It comes in 50# bags. One bag makes two 55 gallon drums of brush prep concentrate, 1-55 gallon drum of foam soap/polish (add dye to color). Cost is about $100 per bag. Its easy to mix and foams like crazy.

 

[Waxman]

I must say that I think mixing one's own c.w. chemicals is nuts. I've been to a mfg. plant and have seen what it takes to do this; large amounts of expensive, specialized equipment, as well as the ability to store some bulk ingredients at high temperatures. If you want to mix some powder with water, go for it. But leave the chemistry and the manufacturing to the professionals!

 

[Buzzie8]

I probably should clarify my original post. I do not think that I would ever consider mixing my own chemicals on site (except maybe presoak powder). I feel that the chemistry in most surfactants and polymer waxes is not overly sophisticated (maybe I'm wrong). But there are local chemical mixing plants in most major markets that if you gave them a formula for chemistry that you were satisfied with they would mix it for you for much less than what you are paying for with the large established brand name chemicals. You are not paying for advertising, a sales rep, and all the other overhead that comes with buying retail. Just my thoughts. From some of the replies, it looks like I could be the guy who owns the gas station and wants to refine his own oil though!! That's why I wanted everybody's opinion. Also, there is local guy here in my market who is pretty much the godfather of car washing. He is doing exactly what I am talking about, but if buy from him his prices are the same as the name brands. Thanks for the input everybody. Keep them coming!

 

[chadrpalmer]

ahh, i see...we have a local chemical manaufacturer that produces most of our soap. THAT in my opinion is a good idea, it keeps our costs down quite a bit from "name brand" soap, plus there is the added benefit of being able to communicate directly with the manufacturer. if we want more dye, he adds more dye. if we say a chemical is not rinsing well, he makes adjustments until we are happy. it is a very good relationship.

 

[Ric]

When you look at the big picture, the % of gross income you pay out for chemicals is peanuts compared to other items such as utilities. At least that's the case here in MI. I'm better off trying to focus on trimming electric and natural gas costs. I can't see where I could save significant $ by messing with my chemicals which are working fine. It's not worth running the risk of giving my customer a poor wash because I'm "formulating chemical" to save a dime.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

Chiefs,
I'd love to here more about the flake. Where do you get it? I need 2 colors of lubricating foam to use with my Softgloss. Could I use 2 different colors of this with my regular detergent with a foambrite auto?

 

[Buzzie8]

Actually I would like to hear more about it as well. I have two roll over Jim Coleman Touchless washes. Does this work only with friction wash or could it be used for my touchless presoak? My current pre-soak titrates at 25. I'm assuming this is high PH solution once mixed.

 

[Chiefs]

Amen Ric.

Find ways to save on labor, cut utility costs and find ways of speeding up throughput on busy days. Do these things and you will save 3-4X what you can making your own chemicals, even if you were able to cut them in half (which you wan't be able to do) you're talking about maybe 20-30 cents a car at best and ignoring the tremendous savings available out there when you find ways of saving on water, sewer, gas and electricity and labor and /or reduce the amount of prepping you do which unnecessarily restricts hourly wash volume and increase your cost per car for labor.

If you produce a clean, dry and shiny car for say 40 cents worth of soap, wax and whee cleaner, is it really worth trying to play name that tune with your solutions and risk the quality your customers have come to expect? Lots of otherplaces to save, like cutting back from that Starbucks coffee you get every morning or that three martini lunch (just kidding).

Bill

 

[Buzzie8]

Guys, I think I know why we might differ on our opinion about chemicals costs now. You guys are obviously in the full serve "tunnel" washing business and I own a 3/2 Self Serve w/ 2 Automatic Bay. Chemicals are third in line behind water and sewage. I cannot cut costs in electricity unless maybe I get a windmill. I cannot cut costs in gas unless I drill a gas well. I have no employees. I can only try to get more cars clean faster and at a lower cost per car. Maybe I should count my blessings.

 

[Ric]

I suppose there may be some truth to that, but I sold my exterior tunnel 2 years ago. I now operate a 5/1. Maybe you should shop for a new chemical supplier before attempting to become a chemist. I've been using Warsaw chemicals for 24 years.

 

[mac]

Mixing your own chemicals is not that difficult. You can go to your local library and they have all sorts of recipes for car wash chemicals. They also used to have some good ones for rocket fuel and explosives, but that was in my misspent youth. There is a local guy in Florida that mixes his for sale. It's a very basic setup. Yes, the major guys have really expensive equipment and labs and stuff. But this guy has no degree, just big tanks with mixers in them. That being said, by the time you get the basic ingredients, mix them someplace, and transport them, you have invested a lot of time to save you maybe 25 cents on an auto wash.