no presoak to bay

[Jimmy Buffett]

I am not getting any presoak to any of my bays. I thought it was not drawing from the concentrate tank but even if I pour concentrate into the mix tank nothing gets to the bay. I was having the same problem earlier and just switched presoak. We had it adjusted just the way I like it for a few days and then nothing. I have a JC Super Saver pump bench. We used a white tip which theoretically should be 10-20 times too strong but I am getting just a smidgen in the bay. Any suggestions?
THX

 

[whitescout]

I don't know anything about that particular system, but I can offer a few things to check.

If your system is using an air pump to deliver the product, and is dead headed until a delivery solenoid opens, verify that the coil of the delivery solenoid has power. If the coil is energized, and the pump doesn't kick on, then the solenoid is noy opening. If this is the case, and you are using Dema, or Kip solenoids, they are prone to swelling, and either sticking in the closed position, or sometimes, even in the open position. If you are using the Kip solenoids, I know that there are replacement plungers available, and there is a viton option on those. I would expect that there are replacement plungers for the Dema as well.

I would venture a guess that the plungers have swollen, and this is what is causing your issue, especially since you said you recently changed pre soak. ( sometimes different soaps don't like to play together.)

If you are injecting air into your presoak soap,( in the equipment room, or in a manifold in the bay), make sure your air pressure is not turned up too high, so that it stops the flow of soap.

The other thing to check for, is whether the check valve is plugged, and not allowing the soap to get by.

HTH

 

[Reds]

I have JC SS equip to my SS bays. A couple of months ago I had a problem with no presoak in either bay. It works by suction. I cleaned foot valves, adjusted needle valve to allow more chemical, changed eductors, etc. But nothing worked. My distributor had me adjust the ball valve below the water tank. There is one on each pump feed. With the pump running you close it until the pump cavitates (makes lots of noise). Then open it until it stops making noise, then open it just a little more. This does not starve the pump of water. It throttles back the water volume enough to create maximum suction while still feeding the pump the water that it needs. This fixed my problem immediately. Then I had to change the eductors and readjust the needle valves back to where they were. Make sure that everything else is off so you can hear the pump you are adjusting. I had my son listen with me to confirm that I had opened the valve enough to eliminate the cavitation. You don't want to starve the pump.

 

[Reds]

One other note. There are solenoids that open the line from the chemical tank. Are they getting power? You could switch one from another part of the stand (they are all the same) and see if the problem goes away. Good luck

 

[MEP001]

The presoak has a Procon pump that draws liquid from a tank and has nothing to do with the high-pressure pump. If you're getting no liquid to the bays at all, the pump may be bad, may have lost prime or may have a clogged strainer in the tank. In this case, messing with the soap concentration is a waste of effort. Start by disconnecting the outlet from the pump and turn it on to make sure it's primed and you're getting good flow and pressure. Turn off the air to the other solenoids and make sure both gauges are reading zero. You can't adjust it accurately if you think you have 60 PSI when the gauge is buggered and you really only have 20.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

Reds is correct. It is drawn by suction. When my soap guy (also JC disty) set up the new presoak that is how he got it to work, by adjusting ball valves. We closed them as much as possible and it worked like a charm for a little while. Then it quit again. I can't turn it down any more without cavitating the pump. We had to use a MUCH bigger tip in the mix tank in order to get good coverage to the bays. Now I get the slightest bit of chemical and that is all. Each bay has it's own solenoid so I can't imagine that they all acted up at once.
Thx
J

 

[MEP001]

Are you referring to the high-pressure bay soap or the separate presoak? Coleman systems don't run the presoak through the high-pressure pumps.

Again, are you getting liquid that is not soapy, or are you not getting enough liquid?

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

It is low pressure (400 lbs) but runs through the pump. I'm getting plenty of liquid (water) but just a little soap.

 

[MEP001]

I see, I didn't realize the Super Saver had that feature.

I'd still examine the soap delivery side, check the strainer or inline filter, perhaps even raise the chemical level in the tank as high as you can.

 

[Mr.Aap]

Check the ball valve at the bottom of your pre-soak tank and make sure it is about half way open.....

 

[Greg Pack]

Sounds like you have medium pressure presoak. It's a simple system, not much to go wrong.

Have you got any sort of scummy buildup that could be occluding the lines or the inlet strainer in the presoak tank?

Another possible culprit is swollen plungers on the solenoid bank. Disassemble the solenoid and inspect the plunger seat material. If it is bulging outward it may not be allowing adequate flow of product through the solenoid. Shave the rubber off flush with a razor blade. Get a spare plunger kit before you try this in case something goes wrong- you lose a spring, etc.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

There is a separate solenoid for each bay though. Wouldn't they all have to be bad?
Thx

 

[Greg Pack]

Yes, it would. But you recently mentioned that you changed product, maybe it caused a compatibility issue. I have had it happen to my foam brush system before.

Here's what I would rule out:

Defective or inadequate concentration of product, resulting in no foam.

Hydrominder not working correctly (resulting in above) Take a hard look at this. Pull down the float and listen for the water to flow through it adequately to draw solution.

Inadequate suction on cat pumps

Gummed solution clogging lines or tank strainer

Swollen plunger seat on solenoids

Faulty common on solenoid bank

 

[randall]

That happened to me, and what we found is that the check valve coming off the pre soak was replaced. after that it worked fine

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

Ok I knew I would have to show my ignorance before this was over. The check valve is on the end of the tube in the concentrate tank, right? It lets the concentrate in but nothing back. I didn't pay much attention to the presoak when he put it in but it seems pretty thin now. It could be that the check valve is letting water back into the concentrate tank and not letting the concentrate into the mix tank.
I don't have to get that from JC do I? Can I just get 1 from KR?
Thanks
J

Wait, am I thinking of a foot valve?

 

[Greg Pack]

Yeah, foot valves what you're thinking of. Standard product available mail order. I keep several on hand

 

[MEP001]

The foot valve goes in the concentrate, a check valve would go on the plumbing to the pumps and will cause your problem if it's stuck closed or installed backwards. If it's failed it could also be allowing water back to the diluted product.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

It appears that the presoak we switched to (Warsaw) is pretty thin. I did not use the really concentrated one because my presoak does not get used that much. I added several ounces of concentrate yesterday and started getting some to the bay so I ordered the hydrominder rebuild kit. Does that make sense? If there is a check valve I couldn't find it. The mix is gravity fed into the solenoids.
Thx
J

 

[Greg Pack]

The foot valve is in the tank of concentrate, but I think you have found that one already and I guess it works.

Check to make sure the eductor hose hasn't fallen off the hydrominder. Hydrominders can start flowing lower volume and don't generate enough of a venturi effect to draw adequate chemical. When all is quiet you can usually pull down on the float chain and compare the sound of water rushing through the hydrominder to others. If it sounds weak check your water supply, that your inlet screen is clean and not restricting water flow. If those things are OK then replace your diaphragm.

I am also assuming you have removed the turtle wax dual tip holder thingie and just replaced with a single standard hydrominder tip.

 

[robtl]

Dont forget to check the water softener, you know what hard water does.