Old vs. New Machinery

[Waxman]

I put this in 'General' because I am not looking for one single solution, per se.

My automatic (Superior) is okay. It washes good. It is simple. It was affordable (my first wash, first machine).

Ideally I would like to start shopping for a new machine. My friend Whale said he had waited too long to re-load new autos in his washes and I don't want to make a similar mistake. I also don't want to over-extend myself financially, being a ham and egger. I may be able to get a few more years out of my wash, but at what cost repairs/maintenance wise?

Lets have your opinion. Be as biased as you want. I am in a community of 20,000 lower-mid income, on a too-fast but main road location (12,000 cpd). I have 1 IBA and 2 SS bays and the bays competing w/me locally are: 1 Laser g5 at a gas station/c-store/dunkin donuts and 2 old SS bays behind a laundry mat on a side street. They do not really do the volume I do but the past 3 years have seen declining car counts (but not revenues because I tweak and try to refine/save, etc). I have a nice 4 bay detail shop and just got approved for a used car license for 6 cars max.at a time.

Mini tunnel? Cloth Rollover? Touchfree again? Customers like the no-touch concept, but I like the idea of a cleaner car and less water and electricity used, as well as more c.p.h. over my slow 8 min wash.

Let me know what has worked for you and what to avoid, please. I want to get this right, especially now that I have 5 years' experience behind me. Thank you!

 

[Washmee]

I just got back from a mini expo where Anthony Anneleto from Sonnys was the main speaker. He says the industry trend is towards friction machines for IBA retrofits and new construction. IMHO friction cleans much better than touchless, uses less utilities and is they way to go. I think touchless was popular because it made the carwash owner feel they are less prone to damage complaints. All customers want is a clean , shiny, dry car. Friction delivers that on a more consistent basis.

 

[robert roman]

I published an article on the subject back in 2008. If you want a copy contact me.

 

[mjc3333]

You mentioned used car sales. That is where I would put my emphasis on for the future. Car washing is great only some of the time. I would try to squeeze more out of car sales than car washing. Just my opinion.

 

[my2cents]

I am in agreement that friction cleans better with less water and chemical. Your car count is on the low side and as stated too fast. A trend in the conveyor business is to install friction Mini Tunnels. Not a bad way to go as some manufacturers have had this option at Fuel/C-store locations for more than a decade. Some of these new designs include wheel scrubbers, tire dressing systems, high pressure, Rain X etc. You need to be weary of how much you pack into a small tunnel as you may only realize a fraction of the cleaning because of space constraints. Some of the wrap designs for instance prohibit a complete coverage of front and backs as the arms are not off set in order to save space. A fraction of the cleaning may turn out a less appealing product. If you install a tunnel it will need to have employees or you on the site at all times. A friction roll-over will not change how you "man' the location, will reduce water and chemical and probably speed up the wash process to 15 cars per hour as dwell time can be reduced.
If I were to install a tunnel for more volume, I would try to build as large as possible even if 60-75' is all I can get.

 

[Greg Pack]

The first thing I would ask is why your counts are dropping. If you have raised prices that may in itself be the reason. Price increases have typically raised my revenues but they have almost always made my car counts drop too.

Are there in friction units or tunnels at all in your town?

Because of rising utility costs and the continuing challenge of consistently cleaning it is unlikely I will buy another touch free. There is a niche for those but my gut tells me most people just want a clean car, and friction will deliver that more consistently than touchfree.

I just visited a mini express tunnel location in Nashville. It was a retrofit, replacing a touchless. I believe inside to inside bay length was 36'. I thought it did a very good job for such a short package. I think wash quality was comparable to a really good friction IBA( no skunk stripes or other missed areas) , but throughput was much better, probably 3 minutes. When I reload I will definitely look harder at this option. I would say on the surface that your market appears too small for an express, but since I guess you guys are there on site anyway you may already have enough labor on site to operate. If labor is already built in to your existing model I would look harder at a short tunnel. If it means having an extra hand on site I would look harder for a friction unit.

 

[txheat]

I just got back from a mini expo where Anthony Anneleto from Sonnys was the main speaker. He says the industry trend is towards friction machines for IBA retrofits and new construction. IMHO friction cleans much better than touchless, uses less utilities and is they way to go. I think touchless was popular because it made the carwash owner feel they are less prone to damage complaints. All customers want is a clean , shiny, dry car. Friction delivers that on a more consistent basis.

I agree totally. With new innovations coming out and customer expectation on the rise, i think as a car wash owner we have to deliver or get shut out. My 1st year in this business building from ground up using JC FusionX that has both touchless and friction. I install Rowafill as reclaim which i love every month when i get my water bill. Still by far friction is the way to go. If i were to do it again, i definitely will use Sonny xpress tunnel but customize. I will never look at another IBA again! They have the new feature where it dry and buff at the end , with blowers ...those car comes out clean, dry and shiny! how it suppose to be, no need for employees to hand dry. Friction btw doesnt deliver a dry car..at least not JC products.

 

[Waxman]

Just raised my price a few months ago. Weather and economy are reasons for lower counts. My wash does a nice job for touchfree and we are on site most days operating the wash and detail full time. There are no friction competitors in my market.

I welcome all the feedback; thank you! I am definitely leaning towards friction for the next wash.

 

[rph9168]

To answer your original question there are a lot of ways to look at it. Since your closest automatic competition is touch free I think choosing a friction machine may be your best move. I think the tougher choice may be between an automatic or mini tunnel. If you find times that your wash is backed up and some may even be driving off you may want to consider a mini tunnel if you have the room for it. If you are not experiencing backups you might want to look at a friction automatic.

Another consideration would be hours of operation. Presently self loading a mini tunnel is a bit risky so being open 24/7 may not be an option with a mini. You would probably also have to have it attended when it is open. The cost between a good friction unit and a mini tunnel are getting closer and closer so the choice may come down more to the format you can live with and not necessarily the amount you are willing to spend.

These are just a few of the more important considerations. There are many more to think about before choosing the operation you want to run.

 

[briteauto]

Waxman,

I know another poster already said this, but I agree that you have a big advantage over many other operators, in that you already have labor on-site. I know it is not idle labor that can suddenly be used to prep vehicles or interact with every car wash customer, but you at least have manpower there in the event that you need it on occasion, as you might want with any unit.

I no longer have any touchfree units - every wash I have is friction. The only touchfree washes I had were "inherited" when I took them over.

Some people say you can wash as well with touchfree as you can with friction. I do not want this thread to become a debate, but I have not found that to be true. The way I see it is that if touchfree really did clean as well as friction, manufacturers would only make touchfree equipment, and that is all operators would buy. Heck you could have open bays, wash more irregular configurations, pretty much eliminate "perceived" damage claims. In theory, it is pretty much carefree - if it really cleaned. However, you are seeing more and more friction units on the market, and in new and updated installs.

The fact that every major manufacturer that previously only made touchfree machines, now makes friction speaks for itself. PDQ, Mark VII and D&S - to name a few. Belanger, primarily a tunnel manufacturer broke into the IBA market with the Vector, but then also started making the freestyler.

You'll have to decide on the machinery based on all the research you will do, but I know you will put out a better product with a friction wash.

FWIW - I like Ryko, Autec and would also look at Wash World, the new Magic Wand and D&S units if you go with an IBA.

Good luck.

Mike

 

[JustClean]

I have a soft foam machine and would it change anyday for a touchless. In my area there are many pick-ups and cars with special attachments which would kill my brush machine. You want to consider the cars that you want to wash.