potential car wash environmental concerns.

[1carwash1]

Does anybody have any knowledge or experience regarding potential environmental issues with older car washes? heavy metals, chemicals, oils etc.
The reason I'm asking, is because I had a conversation with a water department inspector who indicated that one of the older washes that was torn down in the area possessed some kind of contamination. He never elaborated on what exactly the problem was, but he did mention that car washes were a potential source of heavy metals. With that being said, is there a useful life expectancy on underground sediment/oil traps? If I recall correctly, is seems like some of these traps were constructed of bricks and mortar, which would seem permeable. The question is, would brick and mortar trap construction be able to prevent heavy metals from leaching into the surrounding environment?
I have tried to google this subject, but have not been able to find any relevant
information. It would seem that at a minimum you would have to have a phase II to be on the safe side. Any thoughts?

 

[Washmee]

My experience with these government employees who work for the water dept., sewer dept. etc is that they usually have no clue what they are talking about. With that said, my wash is 55 years old and every time I have my pits pumped I have to get the soil tested and there are never any meaningful levels of heavy metals present. When you consider that I wash about 300 heavily soiled vehicles each month from the local Timken Steel plants, I would think that my wash was a likely candidate for such issues. If I don't have any, you shouldn't have to worry.

 

[MikeV]

I was recently informed by my local water/sewer dept. that I need to have my pits pumped out every 90 days, whether they have anything in them or not. They want the manifest sent to them for each pumping. Talk about clueless bureaucrats... Thats another 1200-1500 $$$ I really don't need to spend...but now I do.

 

[bigleo48]

I was recently informed by my local water/sewer dept. that I need to have my pits pumped out every 90 days, whether they have anything in them or not. They want the manifest sent to them for each pumping. Talk about clueless bureaucrats... Thats another 1200-1500 $$$ I really don't need to spend...but now I do.

That would be one I would fight. What possible justification could they have for that?

I have found that the city works dept typically like to push their weight around for no real reason aside from a little power trip.

I had the city want me to pump out quarterly. I told them my pump out schedule depends on how much sand they put out. So if they could give me a schedule of their street sanding, I could give them a schedule pump out schedule. I also asked them if they would like their sand back. I didn't hear back from them.

 

[robert roman]

First of all, I would strongly disagree with the assertion that all government employees are clueless. For example, I worked as a civil servant in environmental management for ten years and happen to know quite a bit.

As for oil/water separators and grease interceptors, yes, these devices can become damaged, but it’s rare. Consider areas like Florida that have sink holes or California earthquakes.

I once operated a lube shop with pits where the foundation supporting the oil/water separator and grease trap cracked, allowing waste water to percolate into ground.

As for contamination, “toxic” is usually defined by the state DEP via EPA requirements under Clean Air and Water acts.

Only state-approved local programs can enforce state or federal environmental regulations.

Receiving a manifest is your protection from cradle to grave responsibility.

Generally speaking, I would start with Phase I and let someone “tell you” if Phase II is necessary.

 

[99Roadking]

Thats the whole problem with today. Everybody wants in on the regulation fun, the city/town, ETJ's, annexes, county, state and US Govt. and any other groups that feel like they need to regulate. What they do not do is think about us, the operators. They do not think "what are the reprecussions this could cause this small business man?"

 

[buda]

What car wash operators have to do is be pro-active and teach government officials what they don't know about how a CARWASH really works, especially the reclaim systems.

Typically a reclaim pit only contains what is on the roads and those materials go into the storm sewers and into the ground.

Govt officials only act on what they think they know.

 

[smokun]

Enlighten Your Critics

Bud's suggestion is absolutely right on target.

Most inspectors and others involved in wastewater management have little exposure to the workings of automatic car washes, especially from someone knowledgeable in the Industry. Instead, they glean hearsay knowledge from others who are simply out of touch with current technology... and have basic misconceptions often merely generated by inferior information sources.

Take the time to invest in their education by showing and demonstrating what really happens in a car wash... and why. Point out the reasoning behind how you do what you do.

As Bud will probably attest, after you successfully enlighten them, they often will become an advocate of your professionalism. Problem solved.

 

[buda]

Steve did you get my email regarding the article I'm writing for PCWD on Detailing 2012 and projection for 2013. Would like some observations from you.

Bud A

 

[ridgeroadcarwash]

Hello, I am in the process of selling my 4 bay carwash. Have been under contract since February 2014. A convenient store is purchasing it. They completed a Phase one study and just finished a Phase 2 study, Phase 2 indicated I have contamination in the ground around my sand traps. They recommend in removing 5 ft. of dirt around the sand traps or even removing the sand traps if needed. My question is this will close by December 21, 2015. The business buying my wash will be escavating the entire property. Doesnt make any sense to me to have to install new sand traps if they will just be removed by the new owner anyway. Does anyone have any experience with contamination or been through anythin like this. Any information will help. Thanks

 

[rph9168]

Unfortunately soil remediation has to be done to any property before a sale can be completed. Hopefully the sand traps do not have to be replaced but if they have to I don't think you have a choice.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I was recently informed by my local water/sewer dept. that I need to have my pits pumped out every 90 days, whether they have anything in them or not. They want the manifest sent to them for each pumping. Talk about clueless bureaucrats... Thats another 1200-1500 $$$ I really don't need to spend...but now I do.

Before you spend $ tell the department in order to make sure you are in compliance you would like a copy of the applicable regulation.

A bunch of times I have had inspectors tell me something the regulation did not say.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Been thru several gas station issues. Without more 411 about what the purported contamination is and scope there is no way of knowing what must be done as opposed to some reccomendation. Depending on the amount of $ involved you may need to have your own consultant look at it. Another choice is to figuire out the incremental cost of excavation and disposal and give the buyer a credit.

If there is a lender involved they may or may not be capable of independant thought and depending on the contamination may not fund without cleanup.

 

[ridgeroadcarwash]

car wash contamination

Been thru several gas station issues. Without more 411 about what the purported contamination is and scope there is no way of knowing what must be done as opposed to some reccomendation. Depending on the amount of $ involved you may need to have your own consultant look at it. Another choice is to figuire out the incremental cost of excavation and disposal and give the buyer a credit.

If there is a lender involved they may or may not be capable of independant thought and depending on the contamination may not fund without cleanup.

The report stated that the benzine level exceeded the allowable limits.

 

[ridgeroadcarwash]

The report stated there was detection of benzene in the groundwater that exceeds the EPA groundwater cleanup levels: rususts of 7.4 ug/L exceeds the cleanup standard of 5.0 ug/L. There was also soil vapor sample taken from the same spot that resulted in a venzene concentration of 1500 ug/M3 which exceeds the 0.31 ug/m3 for resedential air and 1.6 ug/m3 for industrial. The report states the contamination was found in the vicinity of the sand trap. I talked with a guy from Colorado who has been building and remodeling exisiting car washes for 25 years and said he never even heard of benzene being found around sand traps at a car wash before. He said that benzene comes from gasoline. There is a gas station next door to us but test holes were done on that property too which the report didn't indicate any thing wrong with their site. There was a different station prior to the current one there now. Thanks for your previous reply.

 

[rph9168]

It sounds like there is a problem here that might require some professional help on this one. If this involves gas the issue becomes more complicated. I dealt with a similar problem once but it was at a wash at that had gas. At that time we were told we had to have the soil remediated which we did by digging down and leaving the hole open for several weeks and have it inspected by someone from the EPA before we could fill the hole with fresh soil. We had to dig the sides of the hole until it no longer tested for gas. In digging the hole we had to make it much bigger than we originally we led to believe we would need.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If not from a neighboring property I would have to think a historical analysis might reveal something like a prior heating oil tank.