RO/ Softener issue

[soonermajic]

Softener work3d great for years. I figure it's 10 or more yrs old. I keep salt 3/4 full,
Fhen after reading on here about keeping it filled to the top, i decided to do that.
Well, soon as i did, I noticed it quit working & Salt was nonlonger disolving. Also, not cleaning cars on the Razor Edge now either.

Today, the 2 softener heads read:
"Error Detected" & both say Online.

Any advice?

 

[MEP001]

It's a problem with the head. Softeners don't detect hardness and report an error if it's not softening. And they should never both be online.

 

[soonermajic]

Thanks Mep

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Some input for you:
Although it can work for some people (chief among them is apparently MEP), it is not advisable to keep your salt bin (aka brine tank) filled to the top with salt. Simply keep the salt level above the water level in the brine tank.

Have your softeners gone 10 years without maintenance? Typical lifespan of softener resin is 5 years if the resin is exposed to chlorinated water, and 7 years if exposed to non-chlorinated water. If it is well water with iron or manganese it could be much shorter than that. There are other maintenance items that should be completed periodically: clean the injectors, clean the brine line control, clean the brine tank, check for leaks at the valves, check for kinks in the drain lines, check that the fittings on the small tube that connects the valves to the brine tank are tight and not leaking, exercise bypass valves, check that there is no salt bridging going on.

Do you know what brand and model of softener valves you have? Fleck seems to be the most common we see in car washes.

If you have a twin alternating system one should be in service while the other is in standby. Are the softener valves connected by cables/wires?

 

[MEP001]

it is not advisable to keep your salt bin (aka brine tank) filled to the top with salt.

I never said to keep it filled. I said it's okay to fill it once a month rather than monitor it and keep it just above the water level. In my area it's normal to go through 15-20 bags of salt a month.

 

[jubalr]

Softener work3d great for years. I figure it's 10 or more yrs old. I keep salt 3/4 full,
Fhen after reading on here about keeping it filled to the top, i decided to do that.
Well, soon as i did, I noticed it quit working & Salt was nonlonger disolving. Also, not cleaning cars on the Razor Edge now either.

Today, the 2 softener heads read:
"Error Detected" & both say Online.

Any advice?

They both should not be reading as 'online' at the same time. If they are, that could be causing the error as it would be a communication error between the units. If you have noticed a difference in cleaning, it may or may not be softener related. Get some test strips and check the water after the softener and see what the hardness reads. If the softener is working it should read 0-1grain hardness. If it is reading higher, particularly over 6 or 7, then you have an issue. But it also means you may have had an issue longer than you think. When was the last time you checked the hardness of your water after the softener? It's the only way to know that your softener is working and settings are correct for the water coming in. When I bought my wash, the softener was technically operational but the settings were way off for the water coming in.

 

[2Biz]

FWIW I've never had an issue with bridging, and I always fill the brine tank as full as I can.

You are a little "Wishy Washie"! Copied from a thread I started on the Mortons Clean and Protect issue...To add, I worked for a manufacturing company that had a 2cu-ft twin fleck system (just like the one I have at the wash) that made RO water to mix with the cutting fluid we used. It regined about once per day. Maintenance would always fill the brine tank to the top with salt....I tried telling them that it causes issues, but since they didn't work for me, well they wouldn't listen. I guess they (maintenace or the company heads") didn't see an issue with calling the softener company (Dayton Water) monthly to fix the issues with the system. I'll stand with my previous statement in the other thread I think this is not a good practice to fill the brine tank. I agree with Hydro. Just trying to give newbies some objective information so they can make educated decisions on what can cause them issues...

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

If you're regenerating very often like once a day its unlikely salt bridging would be an issue. We most often see it in situations that regen less frequently. Most recently in a twin 1 cu ft system that fed a boiler with low demand. Brine tank filled to the brim - had become a solid block of salt with a hollow beneath.

 

[2Biz]

True about bridging, but I've also seen issues when the brine tank would not refill with water. How would you know when the brine tank is full of salt? I guess you could pop off the cap on the brine tube to see how much water was in the tube? For me, I like to pop the lid off the tank and make sure the water level is always the same without doing an extra step. I've also had my brine tank over fill and come out the overflow. If the salt was over the overflow, it would take some time to figure out the softener had an issue.

 

[kentadel]

Can you reset them? I would pop the cap off the brine fill tube and check the float to see if it may have stuck in the up position. (from experience) I had that happen to me a while back. Try to manually run 1 at a time through a cycle.

 

[soonermajic]

Lots of good advice. Maybe i shouldn't keep salt quite as full, & do more routine maintenance.
I got an RO guy coming to check it out,but Mon is quickest he can get there.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

I think that's a good move. Someone is gong to have to be onsite to noodle through the situation.

AND... you might want to look at your SOP's re softener maintenance.

 

[Greg Pack]

I check hardness, TDS of my RO, and titrate touch free presoak once a week. Takes less than five minutes to check all three. Some do it more frequently, as often as daily. I'm not that diligent. I like to do it on Thursday so I can attempt to address any issues no later than Friday.

When I can catch it i also like to check hardness just before the system regenerates to ensure it's softeneing through the entire cycle.

Although your problem doesn't sound resin related I'm only getting about five years of out of 10% resin due to high chlorine content. The softener flow will decrease dramatically when the resin goes bad

 

[Greg Pack]

Oh, and put me in the "fill it with salt until it can't hold any more" camp. I ain't got space on the floor for a pallet of salt.

 

[MEP001]

How would you know when the brine tank is full of salt?

You should see the salt level dropping. I even hear the tell-tale sound of the salt dropping down toward the valve tube as the tank refills with water and dissolves the salt. That's why I added the mention about how much salt we go through here.

I'm not specifically recommending keeping the tank full of salt. I'm just saying for high volume washes washes that soften all the water and use good pellet salt, it's not necessary to mess with trying to keep the tank at just the right level. I prefer to fill the tank once a month and not have to store a bunch of bags of salt.

 

[ShinePro]

Softeners should be allowed to empty out
Pics below of when they are kept topped off all the time.
Too much weight for fines to get used up and then they get hard.
i now dump my salt tanks out every 2 years
And we use Diamond Crystal decent quality salt

 

[MEP001]

I NEVER SAID TO KEEP IT TOPPED OFF ALL THE TIME.

 

[ShinePro]

i didnt infer that you did!
I just wanted to show what can happen when my helper thinks it needs to be full all of the time!

 

[Greg Pack]

Once a year I let my brine tank run empty and clean it. There is usually about 10 pounds of mush in the bottom.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

When you clean out your brine tank, its a good time to pull the brine valve assembly out of the brine well. You'll see an air check valve at the bottom - this is where fresh water enters the brine tank and where the brine exits the tank. Hit this check valve with a garden hose and then tilt the check valve up and down and make sure you hear the small ball roll freely as you invert it.