Tankless water heater

[kunalamin]

Hello
I have just purchased a car wash and heater system failed within 2 months. tried to fix with ignition part but sometimes it comes on. its huge expense for new owner. I just need some expert advice. does anyone have tankless water heater installed and what are your recommendations? does it requires storage tank? we have 3 self serve and one auto
there are few more expenses are on the way apart of this. lines above the roof pretty crumbled and breaking, see leaks every other day from the roof. everything was working fine when took over and suddenly every thing is coming a part.
Thank you

 

[water guy]

Why did you get in the business if you didn't know anything about your equipment?

 

[kunalamin]

Why did you get in the business if you didn't know anything about your equipment?

well, because I wanted to and learning about it now.

 

[OurTown]

Tankless water heaters have restrictions in flow to get the water up to set temp. There are a few that you can bypass that feature but voids the warranty. There are several ways to install them. One is to put one on each bay but I don't think you can gravity feed soap and wax without injectors. I think Randy on here has that setup. Another way is to have one or more units installed with a storage tank and circulator pump. That way your gravity tank (and pumps) never gets starved. Another way is to plumb it directly to the float valve in the tank. Then install another float valve set a little lower plumbed with cold water. That way when you have several bays running the tank and pumps are not starved. That is what we did. There are times when the water isn't as hot though. Whatever units you go with make sure the minimum water pressure they can run at is lower than the lowest you see at your wash. We almost bought Rinnai units and they have a 50 psi minimum to run and we don't have that. We went with Takagi and they have a 15 psi minimum IIRC. I'm sure 2Biz will chime in to add something I forgot.

 

[2Biz]

Why did you get in the business if you didn't know anything about your equipment?

I'm guessing that 99% of all 1st time buyers knows nothing about carwash equipment...I was one of them!

 

[2Biz]

Tankless water heaters have restrictions in flow to get the water up to set temp. There are a few that you can bypass that feature but voids the warranty. There are several ways to install them. One is to put one on each bay but I don't think you can gravity feed soap and wax without injectors. I think Randy on here has that setup. Another way is to have one or more units installed with a storage tank and circulator pump. That way your gravity tank (and pumps) never gets starved. Another way is to plumb it directly to the float valve in the tank. Then install another float valve set a little lower plumbed with cold water. That way when you have several bays running the tank and pumps are not starved. That is what we did. There are times when the water isn't as hot though. Whatever units you go with make sure the minimum water pressure they can run at is lower than the lowest you see at your wash. We almost bought Rinnai units and they have a 50 psi minimum to run and we don't have that. We went with Takagi and they have a 15 psi minimum IIRC. I'm sure 2Biz will chime in to add something I forgot.

I did all the calcualtions when I installed a new hot water system back in 2014... Ourtown touched on pretty much every way you can use a demand heater, but like he said there are limitations. If I were to have gone that route, I would supply a holding tank with the demand heater which would require aquastats and a circulating pump. That way you'll have capacity and if it doesn't keep up, you won't starve your pumps. Given that, I went with a HTP Phoenix 55 gallon HE NG Hot Water Heater with 1" flow ports...It has been nothing short of awsome...I've had up to 4400 gallon (water) days after a snow event for my 4 bay and it never skipped a beat heating soap and wax cycles...I doubt you get that kind of performance with a demand heater....Unfortunately, the price on those have skyrocketed just like everything else since I bought mine! I gave under $4000 delivered. Now they are $7153 not including shipping....Back then the cost of a demand heater, a SS holding tank, pump, aquastat, and a small amount of plumbing was only a little less what I paid for the HTP...So at the time it was a no brainer...Plus real estate in an ER is usually at a premium! If I were to do the same project today, I might be swayed into using a demand heater and holding tank because of cost?

Phoenix, PH199-55, Stainless Steel NG Water Heater

 

[kunalamin]

I'm guessing that 99% of all 1st time buyers knows nothing about carwash equipment...I was one of them!

learning something new every day

 

[kunalamin]

I did all the calcualtions when I installed a new hot water system back in 2014... Ourtown touched on pretty much every way you can use a demand heater, but like he said there are limitations. If I were to have gone that route, I would supply a holding tank with the demand heater which would require aquastats and a circulating pump. That way you'll have capacity and if it doesn't keep up, you won't starve your pumps. Given that, I went with a HTP Phoenix 55 gallon HE NG Hot Water Heater with 1" flow ports...It has been nothing short of awsome...I've had up to 4400 gallon (water) days after a snow event for my 4 bay and it never skipped a beat heating soap and wax cycles...I doubt you get that kind of performance with a demand heater....Unfortunately, the price on those have skyrocketed just like everything else since I bought mine! I gave under $4000 delivered. Now they are $7153 not including shipping....Back then the cost of a demand heater, a SS holding tank, pump, aquastat, and a small amount of plumbing was only a little less what I paid for the HTP...So at the time it was a no brainer...Plus real estate in an ER is usually at a premium! If I were to do the same project today, I might be swayed into using a demand heater and holding tank because of cost?

Phoenix, PH199-55, Stainless Steel NG Water Heater

Thank you so much. never heard about this kind of heater. we have currently lochinvar which is about 18 to 20 year old. we have holding tank as well

 

[kunalamin]

Tankless water heaters have restrictions in flow to get the water up to set temp. There are a few that you can bypass that feature but voids the warranty. There are several ways to install them. One is to put one on each bay but I don't think you can gravity feed soap and wax without injectors. I think Randy on here has that setup. Another way is to have one or more units installed with a storage tank and circulator pump. That way your gravity tank (and pumps) never gets starved. Another way is to plumb it directly to the float valve in the tank. Then install another float valve set a little lower plumbed with cold water. That way when you have several bays running the tank and pumps are not starved. That is what we did. There are times when the water isn't as hot though. Whatever units you go with make sure the minimum water pressure they can run at is lower than the lowest you see at your wash. We almost bought Rinnai units and they have a 50 psi minimum to run and we don't have that. We went with Takagi and they have a 15 psi minimum IIRC. I'm sure 2Biz will chime in to add something I forgot.

Thank you so much

 

[2Biz]

Thank you so much. never heard about this kind of heater. we have currently lochinvar which is about 18 to 20 year old. we have holding tank as well

The only issue I see with using an HE tank style water heater like the HTP after re-reading your original post, you have an auto bay....You would have to make sure the 1" inlet/outlet plumbing is large enough to carry the GPM for all the bays and auto. I have 4 self serve bays and it works well for me. But I don't have an automatic bay to consider...

 

[kunalamin]

The only issue I see with using an HE tank style water heater like the HTP after re-reading your original post, you have an auto bay....You would have to make sure the 1" inlet/outlet plumbing is large enough to carry the GPM for all the bays and auto. I have 4 self serve bays and it works well for me. But I don't have an automatic bay to consider...

I really appreciate it