TRI-FOAMS and PRESOAKS

[Los.vcs1]

I?m posting this message in all forums to get a response. I am in the process of opening up some washes in the Phoenix market and am fortunate to have a friend who already has two so I can sample products for what I?m looking for. I have two big questions one is on the presoak concept and the other is Tri-foams. Presoak: Why such extreme ends of the pH scale and wich end seems to be the best for loosening or removing the road film and grime all together? My big concern is I have yet to find a presoak that is built without any hazardous ingredients that seems to work and when doing some market research I?ve noticed there is not a city according to their rules on water that actually allows almost what seems to be the industry norm when it comes to these chemicals.
Tri-foams: These for obvious reasons are big sellers in this industry, not because of the actual cleaning power or vehicle benefit but for the SHOW they create. So my question is on trying to dial in a show that is cost effective? We have tried Blue Coral, Armorall and warsaw. All seem to show but not anything special thinner than 50:1. All of these brands claim to be able to foam and color 100:1 and thinner but all we got was some foam and no color (maybe a hint of color here or there). We were using Sonny?s shower heads with hydrominders set at 50:1. We noticed that there is a fine balancing act between the pump stroke rate and air to the shower head to get a desired foam application and color. Are independent foam arches better because they are independently run or am I using the wrong chemical?

Thanks

 

[Mr.Aap]

I run Armorall Foam Polishes at around 1 to 480 and don't get any complaints.....At 1 to 50 or 1 to 100 you would be staining certain vehicles.....Are you using flo-jets and hydrominders....What model hydrominder are you using.....

 

[Los.vcs1]

I run Armorall Foam Polishes at around 1 to 480 and don't get any complaints.....At 1 to 50 or 1 to 100 you would be staining certain vehicles.....Are you using flo-jets and hydrominders....What model hydrominder are you using.....

We are using the typical sonny's set up
Hydrominder 515 with a purple tip (50:1) and a flo-jet to push the chemical to the showerhead foamers. I will have to say that the Foam we are trying to achieve is one that will stick to the car and not run, also when you run your hand through the dispensed foam if you held your hand upside down the foam would hold and not fall off. The Armorall did have the best color but the foam i was getting was just to runny and the more we cut the foam even using the hydrominder511 Purple tip (120:1) and pink tip (240:1) color was still visible but foam was non-existant. Again I'm wondering if the showeer heads are not the way to go because we noticed if one of the 6 heads is giving the slightest of resistance then all others are affected.

 

[Mr.Aap]

I don't care for the shower heads myself....The clear foam tubes or foam arch above work the best in my opinion.....We switched a customers wash from the heads back to the overhead foam arches with much better results....We run Pink tips in all the hydrominders for foam polish....With pink tips the dilution ratio is around 1 to 480.....Sometimes when you look at foam polishes going on the outside of the car they don't appear bright enough but from the customers perspective the actually look great through the windshield....

 

[Greg Pack]

If you're using sonny's showerheads I assume that you want to be in conveyorized forum for better responses.

I like for the tri-foam colors to be somewhat runny. They will blend together and create a kalidescope effect. Also, running products too strong will create issues with rinsing. if you are having to use 50:1 with just about any major brand I suspect something is wrong. Is your water soft? Has someone changed your eductor, is your water pressure OK?

As far as presoaks- my guess is 95% of the people applying a single stage presoak will apply a high ph product. Just about all effective presoak has got to have some active ingredients that boost alkalinity or solvents. Surfactanats or foam alone are not enough. If you walk into most any equipment room in the us you will find those ingredients in most any presoak. You mention warsaw- they sell several presoaks that don't carry hazardous/corrosive labels, improve and wonder plus being some of the most popular.

 

[Los.vcs1]

I don't care for the shower heads myself....The clear foam tubes or foam arch above work the best in my opinion.....We switched a customers wash from the heads back to the overhead foam arches with much better results....We run Pink tips in all the hydrominders for foam polish....With pink tips the dilution ratio is around 1 to 480.....Sometimes when you look at foam polishes going on the outside of the car they don't appear bright enough but from the customers perspective the actually look great through the windshield....

Mr Aap,
1st let me start by saying thank you for responding to my question. I do have to ask though, what type of HydroMinder are you using to get a 480:1 Ratio by using a pink tip? I have looked and looked but found none that have that ability. Are you blending down in your RTU tank 240:1 then on the uptake to the tunnel/bay going 1:1 with water to the foamers? So hypothetically your Flo-jet is pumping, lets say .50 gal a min and your water flow to the arch is the same thus thinning your end use by 2 times at the foamer? I ask this because the only Ratios that are acheived with a Hydrominder using a pink tip are-- 240:1 for the 506, 507, 511, 512; 100:1 for the 515; 195:1 for the 532; 530:1 for the 525 & 530; and 1200:1 for the 546, 551, 561, 562.

 

[Los.vcs1]

TRI-FOams & Presoak

I was told by CFCW that i should post this here so here it goes

I?m posting this message in all forums to get a response. I am in the process of opening up some washes in the Phoenix market and am fortunate to have a friend who already has two so I can sample products for what I?m looking for. I have two big questions one is on the presoak concept and the other is Tri-foams. Presoak: Why such extreme ends of the pH scale and wich end seems to be the best for loosening or removing the road film and grime all together? My big concern is I have yet to find a presoak that is built without any hazardous ingredients that seems to work and when doing some market research I?ve noticed there is not a city according to their rules on water that actually allows almost what seems to be the industry norm when it comes to these chemicals.
Tri-foams: These for obvious reasons are big sellers in this industry, not because of the actual cleaning power or vehicle benefit but for the SHOW they create. So my question is on trying to dial in a show that is cost effective? We have tried Blue Coral, Armorall and warsaw. All seem to show but not anything special thinner than 50:1. All of these brands claim to be able to foam and color 100:1 and thinner but all we got was some foam and no color (maybe a hint of color here or there). We were using Sonny?s shower heads with hydrominders set at 50:1. We noticed that there is a fine balancing act between the pump stroke rate and air to the shower head to get a desired foam application and color. Are independent foam arches better because they are independently run or am I using the wrong chemical?

Thanks

 

[Danny]

As Mr.Aap said earlier with too strong of a dilution of your colored chemicals you can run into a problem of staining. This is most obvious with heavily oxidized cars. Many here will testify to a older, oxidized white car that has a red or blue hue to it after washing.

Foaming is also more a matter of air than most realize. Your chemical supplier should be able to tell you what hydrominder tip to use and help you with the proper air adjustment to achieve a good foam with color. The thickness of the foam applied should also not be just about look but functionality to your operation. If the product is too thick sometimes the final rinses (a matter of volume of water) cannot rinse it clean. This can lead to staining at drip points and customer complaints for chemical left on the car. Most locations I have found are satisfied with a product that applies thick for a few seconds and then begins to run. This creates the kalidescope effect that CFCW mentioned. This is also very easy to attain with the well proven method of clear foamer pipes as Mr.Aap mentioned. Customers are usually happy (more happy then product left to dry on their car and possibly stain) and your operation runs more smoothly (less aftercare).

Tri foams are more about show to the customer. If it was functionality you would only need one "color" without any dye. However a quality tri foam or polish wax should provide a little more shine to the paint if applied with aggitation. A quality product will also help, like a drying agent, with putting out a more dry vehicle. In most cases they will not provide any lasting protection to the paint. There are also the lower end products that are basically colored "soap" and do not add much to your operation other than to add to the show.
I hope this helps

 

[Mr.Aap]

Mr Aap,
1st let me start by saying thank you for responding to my question. I do have to ask though, what type of HydroMinder are you using to get a 480:1 Ratio by using a pink tip? I have looked and looked but found none that have that ability. Are you blending down in your RTU tank 240:1 then on the uptake to the tunnel/bay going 1:1 with water to the foamers? So hypothetically your Flo-jet is pumping, lets say .50 gal a min and your water flow to the arch is the same thus thinning your end use by 2 times at the foamer? I ask this because the only Ratios that are acheived with a Hydrominder using a pink tip are-- 240:1 for the 506, 507, 511, 512; 100:1 for the 515; 195:1 for the 532; 530:1 for the 525 & 530; and 1200:1 for the 546, 551, 561, 562.

Those ratios on the tips are figured for a water thin product at 40 psi water pressure......So a product with a higher viscosity does not draw as much through the tip.....1 to 480 is what I see with a pink tip and our concentrated foam polishes....Distance from the drum to the hydrominder will have an impact as well....

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW I use Kleen Rite Triple Foam and Pre Soak. With triple foam you can put it on as thick as you want wih little concern over cost BUT at the thinkness you want all I can say is good luck rinsing it of well enough, not to mention possible staining. Have used some of the brands you name. KR was a bout 1/3 the cost and did just as good a job and had just as good "Show"