Washer Fluid and Methanol Soap

[Bubbles Galore]

Does anyone know where I could contact a supplier to get some washer fluid for my foam brush purge system?

Also, has anyone gotten methanol soap prices from their suppliers? I was just wondering how much prices have gone up?

 

[MEP001]

Check with a local lube shop. They usually have one main company that supplies them with their oil, filters and washer fluid.

You might come out ahead if you mix your own antifreeze solution, and it would work better for your customers if you purge the lines with something that will foam.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

How do I mix my own antifreeze?

 

[Ric]

Try Rowleys over on your side of the state for windshield wash fluid.

Methonal foam brush soap is cheaper now then it was in the spring. My supplier expects prices to remain fairly stable throughout the winter.

I am going to install a purge system also. I am considering purging with methonal foam brush soap instead of windshield washer fluid. I would purge with a different color of methonal soap. That way when the customer starts using the foam brush they will get one color foam, then a mix, then the summer color. My summer color is blue, my methonal is yellow. So the customer will see a yellow, green, blue transition.

At a 3:1 mix on methonal foam brush, the price is about equal to windshield washer fluid. That should be good to about 0 degrees. Windshield washer fluid claims to be good to -20 however.

 

[MEP001]

How do I mix my own antifreeze?

There are a number of methods. Rather than buying anti-freeze foam brush, you can get a barrel of methanol and either pre-mix some in a barrel for your purge or use a tank and Hydrominder with two tips to supply it, one drawing methanol, the other soap. With either mix method you can control the amount of methanol used, and alter the ratio as needed for necessary freeze protection throughout the season.

Our winters are very mild - I keep the level in the tank as low as possible, and if there's a freeze forecast I pour a couple gallons of windshield washer fluid and a bit of blue foam brush soap in, then run each bay to purge. If I had to worry about keeping it working through a long winter, I'd use an automatic purge instead.

 

[Ric]

How do I mix my own antifreeze?

Years ago I used to mix my own. It is very simple. Every year I weigh out the cost. There is not enough savings to warrant the effort any more for me. As long as your supplier is providing you with a quality methonal foam brush soap and not some watered down junk, I think you will come to the same conclusion.

Drop me an email if you want the recipe for making your own.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I talked to a guy at Rowley's and he said he could get me 55 gallon drums of washer fluid for under $90. I thought that was a pretty decent price. Any input?

 

[Ric]

I talked to a guy at Rowley's and he said he could get me 55 gallon drums of washer fluid for under $90. I thought that was a pretty decent price. Any input?

The only concern I would have with what you are doing is that the first few seconds (actually longer since you are purging from the equipment room out to the brush) the customer uses the brush they are washing with windshield washer fluid. It probably won't hurt the vehicle but I doubt if it will look very good or foam. You can purge with a 2:1 mix of methonal foam brush soap for about the same cost as the washer fluid. Then the customer will have soap/foam right off the bat. Make the methanol soap a different color and you will provide the customer with a tri color foam brush show. That's how I intend to set up my system. I am however purging from the ceiling down in each bay rather than from the equipment room.

 

[MEP001]

I agree with Ric - since you intend to purge after every use, it may take some time for the brush to begin to foam. I would also use a different color, not just for the show but so you can be sure it's purging completely.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

One of my washes just purges the liquid through and doesn't fluff it up with air. This works just fine and usually the liquid is pushed out by the time the customer walks over to the brush. I do inject it near the boom and not in the eq. room. It's really a non-issue IMO. I actually think I like it better than my other washes that "fluff-up"

I use a different color also, just so I can see at a glance that it is working.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I am going to use the most cost effective solution. After a purge, if a customer switches the foam brush on, it takes 10-15 seconds to get the regular foam brush solution to my furthest bays (4 bays down). I don't think my customers even notice to tell you the truth. At least with some solution in the lines, they are able to see something instead of just hearing the air going through the lines. I just want to use something that is going to keep my lines from freezing AND save me enough money to be worth it.

 

[RykoPro]

Here is the 8 bay prototype:

 

[RykoPro]

Here is the six bay (5 bay with one aux. circuit):

 

[MEP001]

It seems like a programmable relay or a PLC could perform this purge with many fewer parts, a much smaller cabinet and a much lesser cost. If I'm not mistaken, each of those adjustable time-delay relays are about $100, whereas a Siemens Logo and expansion module to provide 8 outputs would be under $200.

 

[RykoPro]

This is VERY simple for ANYONE to program.
How many inputs does your system provide? Is every output able to use a separate common? Do you have a link so I can see just what it is capable of?
This system will last a long time with NO problems (I have seen these relays last for over 20 years).

 

[MEP001]

This is VERY simple for ANYONE to program.

The Siemens Logo with a display is relatively simple to change the parameters with its arrow keys. If the program is "built" properly, each count down parameter would be labeled and would correspond to a switching output.

How many inputs does your system provide?

With one 4-terminal expansion it can provide 8 outputs. I believe one basic Logo unit can have up to 32 outputs.

Is every output able to use a separate common?

Not sure what you mean. The Siemens Logo has individual input/output for each switching relay, so there's no need for the common wires for all the bays to interact, or to have a "hot" lead supply all the outputs and risk a phase inversion. There's no need for separate relays as I see in your controller, and its switching components are rated for 10 amps.

Do you have a link so I can see just what it is capable of?

https://www.automation.siemens.com/logo/html_76/products/01LOGO/05LOGO_Overview.html

This system will last a long time with NO problems (I have seen these relays last for over 20 years).

I recognize and don't doubt that the relays you use are reliable. I've only been using these Logo relays for about eight years and have only seen one fail, which was caused by lightning. In that instance, there were many components of different equipment that were destroyed, some of which I'd never seen fail before. You may also note that I made no comment regarding the reliability of your unit.

 

[MEP001]

My triple-foam controller:

 

[RykoPro]

I was inquiring on how many inputs you have.
Yours is a four bay? Does it use a thermostat? What happens when someone uses the bay if the thermostat is on? I like making these and that is why I ask so many questions. I am trying to see if there are different operational characteristics to see if we are comparing apples to apples. I used the parameters given to me for the circuit and this is what I came up with. You cannot beat the ease of programming the timers. Another benefit is if you did have a PLC problem, the whole thing is down instead of only one bay.
Most plc's have one "common" power supply for multiple outputs. Since each bay has its own transformer I thought it may be a problem for a plc. Did you make up a schematic for your circuit?

 

[MEP001]

I don't have a purge unit, but if I did build one I'd use the Siemens to control it. I use them for all sorts of tasks.

Some PLCs do use a "common" supply; the Logo does not.

The base unit has only 8 inputs; I believe the expansion modules add 8 inputs and 4 outputs.

The photo above is of a triple-foam wax controller. The four solenoids are the three colors of liquid and the air for the FloJet. I built it to overlap each color as it switches so I get six instead of three.

 

[RykoPro]

That is nice, I like that you are creating new colors with your overlap. I did not think you had enough wires for a purge unit. I will look into the logo, I may have to order one so I can "test" it. Most of my circuit is made from recycled parts (old door kits) to keep cost down, but I warranty them as if they were new.
I have used these timers for all kinds of car wash and non car wash circuits. I made a circuit for the city I work in that controls the liquid salt distribution into the sand hauled by the snow plows. From the drivers seat they press a button and 55 gallons of salt is sprayed over the road sand. When the light turns from red to green, the operation is complete and they drive away. This was all done with only one timer relay. I have also used them for factory production conveyor timing and control.