Washworld High Velocity - Motor Control Overload

[TechGuy]

I've recently started having my High Velocity shut down on me a few times a week. It always stops while spraying drying agent. Up until today, the arch has always stopped near the rear passenger corner of the vehicle. Today, it's stopped twice on the rear driver's corner.

Each time, the control panel shows Error 2 (Motor Controller Overload).

The motor controller (Altivar) always shows error 06F ("Overvoltage during deceleration / Braking too sudden or driving load"). I'm going to give Washworld a call when I get onsite tomorrow, but was curious if anyone else had run into this one.

Thanks!

 

[JGinther]

Sounds like a sticky contactor. Is it always at the end of a run? Like when the bridge stops or the trolley stops? Otherwise you may be able to increase the decel time on the vfd... that will reduce the regeneration voltage to the dc bus in the drive.

 

[mgmtoo]

I've had this same problem lately, washworld made a few suggestions of things to check, gearbox, connections,etc but I have yet to find out why it's overloading! Mine is very random, wash for two weeks then works properly for two weeks. Just maddening!

 

[TechGuy]

I did some more testing on this issue today. WashWorld didn't mention any gearbox or connections to me when I spoke to them. They only suggested checking the incoming voltage. They said that if the voltage was too high for a long period of time, it would damage the drive and present the 06f periodically. They said that a transformer may be necessary if we have > 250 volts and that replacement of the driver was likely (~$350). We checked the panel and the highest leg is at 246 volts, but I can't say that it never jumps above that. (I tested as dryers and pumps turned on and off and never saw higher, though.)

We reviewed some video footage from inside the bay and noticed that every failure was during the Polish cycle. We've never had a failure during any other cycle. I discovered that the speed on the Polish cycles were all set for 9 (presumably unchanged since original installation). None of the other cycles are set that high. I dropped that down to 6 to see if it makes any difference. We did 16 more cars today with no issue before the thunderstorms moved in. Fingers crossed.

 

[pgrzes]

wow this is bizarre!!!! I have been running trouble free for months, and this weekend Sunday afternoon at 3:30 same exact thing!! Except I am getting a prox 5 error arch rotate fail!! Not showing the speed control fault but has a obf on the vfd. I thought it was a o6f also but its a obf. Mine is same position but either on polish or spot free rinse. Also was told same thing I have 240v coming into cabinet, but cabinet is rated for 208v. washworld says the voltage probably damaged the vfd. I found a gearbox just about emptyof oil? Seems kind of strange that multiple people same problem same time??

 

[JGinther]

The first thing I would try is to put in a heavy viscosity oil in the gearbox. This will increase the gearbox resistance slightly to where it will slow down on its own instead of feeding voltage to the VFD. Second thing would be to change parameter in VFD for incoming voltage to actual voltage. Last thing would be to increase the deceleration parameter up just a bit to slow regeneration voltage to VFD. If none of that works, I guess the next step would be to install a brake chopper...

I really doubt line voltage from the power company damaged the VFD. There is almost no way that can happen. A spike from the power company - maybe, but still not likely. The fault that is occuring is caused by the machine's inertial load stopping. Then a motor is spun by a mechanical load, the motor is actually a power generator. The power from the motor is fed back to the DC bus of the drive causing a voltage increase on the bus. When the VFD senses this, it will fault out. Slowing down the machine by resistance, or slower actual speed will prevent the issue. Lastly disconnecting the load from the VFD by a contactor (which is what I thought washworld did) would isolate the voltage as long as the contactor lets go before the drive slows down. If that is the case, and there is still an overvolt bus during decel alarm, that would indicate a sticky contactor.

 

[BBE]

wow this is bizarre!!!! I have been running trouble free for months, and this weekend Sunday afternoon at 3:30 same exact thing!! Except I am getting a prox 5 error arch rotate fail!! Not showing the speed control fault but has a obf on the vfd. I thought it was a o6f also but its a obf. Mine is same position but either on polish or spot free rinse. Also was told same thing I have 240v coming into cabinet, but cabinet is rated for 208v. washworld says the voltage probably damaged the vfd. I found a gearbox just about emptyof oil? Seems kind of strange that multiple people same problem same time??

That's a completely different error than a motor controller overload. Sounds like there is a problem with one of the 3 prox switches on the cam above the arch. Either the switch itself, the cable, or the cam is extremely rusty.

 

[ted mcmeekin]

We have MK VII machines--had similar proble a couple years ago--finally replaced the drive inveter which fixed problem.

 

[pgrzes]

That's a completely different error than a motor controller overload. Sounds like there is a problem with one of the 3 prox switches on the cam above the arch. Either the switch itself, the cable, or the cam is extremely rusty.

The Washworld is not recognizing the vfd code. The drive is going out with a obf code it the computer isn't acknowledging it. So it's still trying to rotate arch. Was seeming to be happening about every third car after 3:30 pm Sunday and Monday.

 

[wash4me]

The first thing I would try is to put in a heavy viscosity oil in the gearbox. This will increase the gearbox resistance slightly to where it will slow down on its own instead of feeding voltage to the VFD. Second thing would be to change parameter in VFD for incoming voltage to actual voltage. Last thing would be to increase the deceleration parameter up just a bit to slow regeneration voltage to VFD. If none of that works, I guess the next step would be to install a brake chopper...

I really doubt line voltage from the power company damaged the VFD. There is almost no way that can happen. A spike from the power company - maybe, but still not likely. The fault that is occuring is caused by the machine's inertial load stopping. Then a motor is spun by a mechanical load, the motor is actually a power generator. The power from the motor is fed back to the DC bus of the drive causing a voltage increase on the bus. When the VFD senses this, it will fault out. Slowing down the machine by resistance, or slower actual speed will prevent the issue. Lastly disconnecting the load from the VFD by a contactor (which is what I thought washworld did) would isolate the voltage as long as the contactor lets go before the drive slows down. If that is the case, and there is still an overvolt bus during decel alarm, that would indicate a sticky contactor.[/QUOTE
Disconnecting a load on the load side of a vfd should only be done after decelerating to a stop. Damage can result. How about asking the power company to retap your transformer to the next lower voltage?

 

[whitescout]

I guess I don't understand what is going on here. I am reading a bunch of technical information concerning Dc busses, reprogramming parameters on the VFD, and even changing from the factory synthetic oil to a high viscocity oil.

I also see that Washworld is simply saying that if the incoming voltage is too high,(240 or higher), install a buck boost transformer. The manual states that if incoming voltage is 240 or higher, a buck boost transformer needs to be installed inline to the VFD, as damage could result.

With that said, I would install the buck boost transformer, as the programming in the PLC, and all of the parameters programmed in the VFD are set up for voltage below 240.


Additionally, I would top of the gearbox oil with the correct synthetic oil. I would also check prox cables, prox switches, and connections in the wago terminals in the junction boxes. I would also check the condition of the cam as stated above.

 

[JGinther]

Disconnecting a load on the load side of a vfd should only be done after decelerating to a stop. Damage can result. How about asking the power company to retap your transformer to the next lower voltage?

I agree it is not the best answer, but it is how the equipment is already designed. I was just trying to give some background information so they could understand the issue versus randomly trying things or calling the power company as suggested by the techs at the manufacturer.

 

[JGinther]

I guess I don't understand what is going on here. I am reading a bunch of technical information concerning Dc busses, reprogramming parameters on the VFD, and even changing from the factory synthetic oil to a high viscocity oil.

I also see that Washworld is simply saying that if the incoming voltage is too high,(240 or higher), install a buck boost transformer. The manual states that if incoming voltage is 240 or higher, a buck boost transformer needs to be installed inline to the VFD, as damage could result.

With that said, I would install the buck boost transformer, as the programming in the PLC, and all of the parameters programmed in the VFD are set up for voltage below 240.


Additionally, I would top of the gearbox oil with the correct synthetic oil. I would also check prox cables, prox switches, and connections in the wago terminals in the junction boxes. I would also check the condition of the cam as stated above.

I can explain what is going on here... These people all have machines that have been in operation for lengthy periods of time without issue - even if not installed exactly according to the manual. It is obvious that these issues are very uncommon and the equipment is riding the line and rarely if ever exceeding the line for limitations. Soooo, (assuming they have exausted options related to faulty sensors or mechanical problems) a simple and cheap adjustment can make the problem go away forever. I agree that installing the transformer is another option. I for one, don't have infinite faith in manufacturers' engineering skills, and often have somewhat modified or extremely modified equipment that works great. I am one who chooses to 'swim at my own risk', and I know that is not for everyone and don't intend for it to be. I have even seen one instance where the owner of a car wash has two incoming power supplies from the power company because he already had a delta and the equipment company said that wouldn't work with their automatic. The cost was astronomical compared to a few adjustments on some VFD's. I installed the same equipment piece at 2 other locations with the same power issue free... You just have to know what you are doing....

 

[whitescout]

My response was kind of blunt....I am sorry, but that is how I am wired.

I agree, that many things can be changed by a person if they know what they are doing. The OP didn't know what he was doing, ( no offense intended), and was asking for help. People suggested many options, that I do not think should be attempted just because people on the internet tell him to do so.

Washworld did not recommend to change the incoming voltage from the power company, it was one of the people responding.

I agree with Jginther about the machines operating for years pushing the limits, and just now, the machines are surpassing the limitations. THAT, is why I stated that Washworld states in the owners manual, that voltage should be 208, and if the power is 240, or above, a buck booster should be installed to bring the voltage down to the speed controller. IMHO, whoever installed the machine knew what he was doing and installed the machine, either knowing, or not knowing that this could be a problem in the future.

I think that the installer took the swim at your own risk approach, at the owner's expense.

Bottom line, is that Washworld stated that if incoming voltage is 240 or above, install a buck booster. The VFD is programmed for 208 in the parameters, and all DC braking and motor decel is programmed from the factory for 208.

 

[pgrzes]

Hey tech-guy, what did you ever find out with this situation? I went over all my connections, tire pressures, and found a gearbox low on oil. Have not had a problem since going over everything. Also you had mentioned $350 for a vfd. I was told $750 for 1 from Washworld??