Whats in your tunnel?

[hkim310]

Just trying to get an idea of what types of cleaning equipment other operators have in their wash. We are thinking about adding some more equipment in our tunnel and I wanted to compare what we have to what other operators have. Here is our information:

Tunnel Length - 120 Foot
Equipment - (All Sonny's equipment)

2 Wrap Around Brushes
2 Front to Back Mitters
1 Side to Side Mitter
Spinner High Pressure Wheel Cleaners
OMNI High Pressure Wash Arch
Bison Tire Brush
Tire Seal/Shine

We are thinking about adding another Wrap Around Brush and a Top Brush. I know you could keep adding more and more equipment forever so I wanted to see how our current equipment line up stacks up against other washes.

 

[RAATCB]

Are the cars not coming clean? Why would you want to add more wrap arounds and top brush? I would add more perceived value items like signs/led lights/lava wax/led foamers. More better show = higher cash flow!

 

[hkim310]

RAATCB, we actually already have the full Simoniz Lava 4 step process with all of the LED lights as well as Hot Wax with LED lighting. We are a flex serve car wash with a top exterior wash set at $20. We always have issues with bugs on windshields/front bumpers and road tar on rocker panels that do not completely come off through the wash. I understand that through a car wash it will not produce hand wash results but we would like to get as close to that as possible.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Do you have 2 wrap around Brushes or 2 sets of wrap around Brushes?

As indicated - target any problems, not just add equip.

Forget about removing road tar. It requires solvents and time. Neither of which are appropriate for a tunnel.

Bugs may be a similar issue depending on how long they have been cooked on. Sonny's does have a bumper Grill brush or the second set of wraps or seperate prep application may help. If they have cooked on a long time I doubt anything other than manual attention and solvents will address it. If possible, slowing line speed in bug season can help as well.

 

[hkim310]

Earl, we currently have 2 sets of wrap around brushes. For us, bugs are a big issue on the front ends/windshields in the summer time. We already prep all cars that come into the tunnel with high pressure and add bug spray as needed. The triple set of mitters are great in that they do not cause any damage to vehicles but they don't seem to do the cleaning job that a top brush would do for windshields. We thought about a front grill brush but they don't seem to be that much cheaper than another set of wrap around brushes which would do much more than just the front. I think sometimes we have to remind ourselves that we are a tunnel wash and EVERYTHING can't come out perfectly clean!

 

[Earl Weiss]

Suggestions.

Before buying equipment that may or may not solve the issue I would experiment.

Run the car thru a second time. If that does not work than doubling equipment would not seem to solve the problem.

Try to remove any residue by hand after a wash . See how long it takes, how much effort and what types of solutions. I have encountered issues where puting a rag with warm solution and letting it sit on the bug guts for several minutes or long dwell time with bug remover was needed. This is not a problem solveable in a tunnel.

Can you reduce conveyor speed?

Can you try longer dwell with bug prep? Some delta sonics have a 20 foot or so aluminum framed and skinned structure with prep spray manifolds on the approach to the tunnel entrance. This gives quite a bit of dwell time during the approach an loading phase.

Good luck.

 

[Earl Weiss]

hklm - where are you located?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Another idea for the fronts is swap out cloth on 2nd wraps lower section for filament. You will need to experiment with rotation speed. As you may know Sonny's shows filament on some lower details mounted on top of their tire brush. I had Erie Brush make me some Filament sections that slip right into the C Channels for easy experiment. Wanted to see effect on wheels when used on Lower details and on lower section of high sides. Have not yet tried on lower sections of current wraps but ran wraps for decades with filament with no issues. Like the cleaning on the wheels. Still will not get into some nooks and crannies but it's better than cloth.

 

[TEEBOX]

Hi Earl,

Can you post a video with the filaments!

Did you name it the Earl Wraps! Seems everyone now a days wants a legacy! Just kidding about the name.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Here are videos of the old equip. Replaced with a Sonny's package a couple of years ago.

As noted these were "Hodge' wraps.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNxwkLuXU5o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03RtqH52QR8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPxHw_2mqlk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLocWkswP3U

 

[hkim310]

Earl, we are located in Virginia. I wouldn't want to lower conveyor speed as we are a pretty high volume wash and wouldn't want to do anything that would slow the process down. I do like your ideas about trying different material (filament) for part of the wraps to see how it would do as well as somehow integrating a bug prep that could be applied earlier that would allow it more dwell time. From your experience, did you notice a large difference in cleaning ability with replacing cloth for the filament?

 

[Earl Weiss]

... From your experience, did you notice a large difference in cleaning ability with replacing cloth for the filament?

My post 10 has video of my old setup at my shortest tunnel which had the least equipment although the slant was a workhorse. Aside from the occasional long cooked on bird Poop, tree sap or bugs the cars came out really clean. My other locations with cloth had more equipment or needed more (Originally 1 set of wraps but added another. As well as triple mitters.) The addition of filament is to target wheels without the water and utility cost High Pressure pumps. It is still a work in progress. I don't think any mechanized friction equipment will get all those nooks and crannies with Brake dust issues, nut the switch from cloth to filament does seem to make an improvement.

I think I probably stole the ideas from seeing a Sonny's setup where they mount filament lower details on the wheel brush.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Earl, we are located in Virginia. I wouldn't want to lower conveyor speed as we are a pretty high volume wash and wouldn't want to do anything that would slow the process down.

Since I am in Chicago and conditions vary widely by locale i really can't comment on your conditions. An anomaly here is that when cars look the worst, covered in road salt absent extreme cold they are easiest to clean since salt is water soluble and acts as a solvent for other dirt. This is when we are busiest and can run the fastest. To the contrary hot months are slower and while cars don't look as bad overall the cooked on stuff requires more dwell time. I remember discussing line speed with a newbie in the area and he was surprised to learn we ran slower in the summer. Changing speed from say 125 CPH to 100 CPH may give the ability to space cars closer and produce similar volume, but allows 20% more dwell time and time on target for each piece of equipment.

 

[hkim310]

hmmm...that's an interesting way of thinking about production in relation to chain speed. We don't currently change the chain speed from winter to summer but I never thought about adjusting the chain speed and adjusting the roller up to try and space cars closer together to produce similar volume. I think part of our problem is the bugs that we are trying to get off may not be possible to get off at any automatic wash........

 

[Earl Weiss]

hmmm...that's an interesting way of thinking about production in relation to chain speed. We don't currently change the chain speed from winter to summer but I never thought about adjusting the chain speed and adjusting the roller up to try and space cars closer together to produce similar volume. I think part of our problem is the bugs that we are trying to get off may not be possible to get off at any automatic wash........

Not sure what you mean by "Adjusting the roller up"

Traditional thinking is that a conveyor can have for example 7' roller spacing but high volume locations benefit from 3'6" spacing. This allows for more efficient spacing at the cost of having twice as many rollers. Calculations can be complex, but in simplest terms if chain speed is 180 CPH and you barely miss the optimal roller 60 times an hour with 7 foot spacing that's 21 cars of production lost. At 3'6 spacing you've lost 10 cars. Slowing the chain speed may or may not allow substantially fewer missed rollers.

3 of my 4 locations have 3'6" roller spacing. The 4th has 7'. Interestingly enough, due to the layouts the one with 7" spacing can have the highest throughput.

The simplest test to determine if your issues are resolvable with more equipment or chemistry is to experiment with manual applications of chemistry and friction or HP. As indicated sometimes cooked on stuff just needs to soak for 10 minutes or so and that is not something applicable for our systems.