Well here we go again. Another bunch of 7th century fanatics go and kill innocent people. We are told that the vast majority are peaceful loving followers, with maybe just 10% radical. Well listen up, there are about one billion of the followers of the pedophile prophet Mohammed. So that means there are only 100 million who are radical. Do you see the radical Baptists, Catholic, Buddhists, or Jews doing any of this? It is the muslims, and they have been doing it since the false religion started 700 years ago. The word Islam means to submit for crying out loud. Where are the so called peaceful ones marching to get rid of the radicals? Oh that's right, they don't care. Lord help us all.
Just where are the freaking peaceful muslims?
- Thread starter mac
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Yes, but the worst thing the Westboro people do is carry signs and annoy us. Near as I can recall I have not seen videos of them cutting the heads off others, kidnapping young girls as sex slaves, or my favorite, burning people alive. Wake up people, they're coming for us. As if 9/11 wasn't enough.
I agree with MEP. I have several Muslim friends that are totally against ISIS and other terrorist groups but what are they supposed to do about it? They have as much control over them as ours and many other governments do. As MEP suggests where do you see any religious groups out picketing off shoots or radicals among their religion. In reality there are many more Muslims fighting against terrorist groups on the Middle East than any other government or country. I guess my frustration is the lack of a realistic plan by our government to take the lead in wiping them out. Hard to imagine any other government willing to take action when the leader of the free world takes in a ball game with a communist revolutionary rather than tale action on the recent violence in Belgium. I and many others are as frustrated as you when it comes to terrorists and the threat to ours and other countries but the solution does not come from Muslims protesting it. It comes from decisive action taken by ours and other countries affected by these terrorist thugs.
JJJakubowski
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An inconvenient Truth about "Most Muslims"
There have been a slew (pardon the apropos pun) of polls (domestic and foreign) that consistently reveal Islamic Fundamentalism (aka, "radical Islam") to be a violent worldwide plague of, uh, Biblical proportions. Below are but a few poll results that are especially relevant to the adherents of this “Religion of Peace” here in America. In Brussels, the "poll results" were revealed in how the terrorists could be sheltered for so many months (after the slaughter in Paris) in Muslim neighborhoods.
FREE SPEECH AND ISLAM
58% of American Muslims say criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech. 45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges. 12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death. 32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land. (http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/201...f-expression;* http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012...s-believe.html)
ISIS AND MUSLIMS
81% of respondents (Muslims internationally) approve of ISIS! Al Jazeera poll: (https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...a-arabic-poll/ )
38% of American Muslims says ISIS beliefs are correct. The Polling Company CSP Poll in 2015: (http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.o...-Poll-Data.pdf)
SHARIA
51% of American Muslims believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts. (https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....shariah-jihad/)
20% of American Muslims approve of violence in order to institute sharia. (https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....shariah-jihad/)
300,000 American Muslims believe that shariah is "Allah’s law that Muslims must follow and impose worldwide by Jihad.’”(https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....shariah-jihad/)
Hmmm, not exactly, MEP. Actually, not at all!...
There have been a slew (pardon the apropos pun) of polls (domestic and foreign) that consistently reveal Islamic Fundamentalism (aka, "radical Islam") to be a violent worldwide plague of, uh, Biblical proportions. Below are but a few poll results that are especially relevant to the adherents of this “Religion of Peace” here in America. In Brussels, the "poll results" were revealed in how the terrorists could be sheltered for so many months (after the slaughter in Paris) in Muslim neighborhoods.
FREE SPEECH AND ISLAM
58% of American Muslims say criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech. 45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges. 12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death. 32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land. (http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/201...f-expression;* http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012...s-believe.html)
ISIS AND MUSLIMS
81% of respondents (Muslims internationally) approve of ISIS! Al Jazeera poll: (https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...a-arabic-poll/ )
38% of American Muslims says ISIS beliefs are correct. The Polling Company CSP Poll in 2015: (http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.o...-Poll-Data.pdf)
SHARIA
51% of American Muslims believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts. (https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....shariah-jihad/)
20% of American Muslims approve of violence in order to institute sharia. (https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....shariah-jihad/)
300,000 American Muslims believe that shariah is "Allah’s law that Muslims must follow and impose worldwide by Jihad.’”(https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....shariah-jihad/)
mmurra
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JJJ, the data is only as good as the source. I do not buy the data you quote (I am fine that you do-no argument there). Every culture and religion has thoughtful, peaceful folks and every culture and religion has extremists. I believe almost all people want the same thing; safety and security and the ability to take care of their families and have a modicum of personal freedom to choose. My Muslim friend is a member of Amnesty International and Rotary International, both peace loving organizations (so, "100% of the Muslims surveyed are peacemakers" by murray/anecdotalevidence.com
It is a shame that so few people read and understand history. Radical islam is not new. It has been part of that "faith" since the pedophile prophet( I refer to him that way since his last "wife" was a 9 year old girl, look it up) dreamed it up. The religion has spread by the sword. For 700 freaking years. President Jefferson sent the newly formed Marines to Tripoli 200 years ago because the muslim pirates were capturing European trading ships for centuries. So sit back and say the peaceful ones really don't approve of this all you want. Again a little history. How many of you know that Hitler was elected by the people of Germany in an open election? Most Germans did not agree with his radical views, but did nothing. "All that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." oops, there goes that darn history again.
Christianity has had its share of wars as well. There are many horrific battles inscribed in the Old Testament. Many wars like the Crusades were also fought by Christians in the name of religion to defeat Muslims. In fact many wars have been fought over religion. There were even warrior Popes back in the Middle Ages. My point was that simply protesting against terrorism by Muslims does little or anything to end the problem much like protesting by Christians against radical fundamental lists. We don't blame all of Christianity for actions of other so-called radical Christian sects so it seems rather futile to blame all Muslims for terrorism or condemning them for not speaking out more than they already have. In fact many of the terrorists are not really dedicated Muslims but rather paid mercenary thugs or disenchanted individuals more than religious fanatics. What it will take is a concentrated military efforts by those countries opposing terrorism, not protests or speaking up against terrorists by Muslims or Christians for that matter.
JJJakubowski
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Deja vu, ya'll
True Christianity is a religion of Forgiveness, Love and, PEACE. Jesus' message was to always "love your enemies" … "do good unto those who hate you" … "if violence is done unto you — turn the other cheek" … etcetera, etcetera. There are NO Gospel verses in which Jesus tells His followers to slaughter or harm in any way non-Christians or ANY one — NONE! Despite that fact (and human nature being so damn inhuman) --- over the centuries, people and authorities (calling themselves "Christian") perpetrated acts of cruel death, destruction and depravity in the name of Jesus. BUT you must remember they had acted absolutely and totally CONTRARY to His mandates so clearly, consistently specified in the New Testament!
History has shown how all of the beautifully peaceful, loving teachings of Jesus were terribly corrupted by some. So think, THINK about all the horrific fruit that must necessarily be borne from a faithful following of the Quran. There are over 100 verses ("sura") in the Quran where Mohammed very explicitly condones, commands and extols "hudud" — the "blessed virtues" of slaughtering, beheading, torturing and mutilating non-believers and "traitors to Islam".
Yes, the horrors done (past, present and future) in the name of Mohammed and Allah are emphatically commanded in the Quran ... as well as the Hadith (the "second tier" of Islamic Scriptures). Tragically, Islam is intractably, inherently resistant to reform. Consequently, the acceptance and support of jihad terror is much, much more mainstream than many on the Left so desperately desire to believe. Not all 1.6 billion Muslims have the heart (or rather, "the stomach") to be fundamentally faithful to their Quran. BUT it's certainly not just a "radical fringe" either. There really are hundreds of millions so aligned ... and counting.
Yikes, it's "déjà vu all over again"! Years ago we had much the same exchange on this Forum. Namely, those on the Left (following Obama's lead) were equating Christianity's bad ol' days to Islam nowadays. As a life long student of History and Religion, I'm compelled to reiterate the points I had made at the ACF once upon a time:
True Christianity is a religion of Forgiveness, Love and, PEACE. Jesus' message was to always "love your enemies" … "do good unto those who hate you" … "if violence is done unto you — turn the other cheek" … etcetera, etcetera. There are NO Gospel verses in which Jesus tells His followers to slaughter or harm in any way non-Christians or ANY one — NONE! Despite that fact (and human nature being so damn inhuman) --- over the centuries, people and authorities (calling themselves "Christian") perpetrated acts of cruel death, destruction and depravity in the name of Jesus. BUT you must remember they had acted absolutely and totally CONTRARY to His mandates so clearly, consistently specified in the New Testament!
History has shown how all of the beautifully peaceful, loving teachings of Jesus were terribly corrupted by some. So think, THINK about all the horrific fruit that must necessarily be borne from a faithful following of the Quran. There are over 100 verses ("sura") in the Quran where Mohammed very explicitly condones, commands and extols "hudud" — the "blessed virtues" of slaughtering, beheading, torturing and mutilating non-believers and "traitors to Islam".
Yes, the horrors done (past, present and future) in the name of Mohammed and Allah are emphatically commanded in the Quran ... as well as the Hadith (the "second tier" of Islamic Scriptures). Tragically, Islam is intractably, inherently resistant to reform. Consequently, the acceptance and support of jihad terror is much, much more mainstream than many on the Left so desperately desire to believe. Not all 1.6 billion Muslims have the heart (or rather, "the stomach") to be fundamentally faithful to their Quran. BUT it's certainly not just a "radical fringe" either. There really are hundreds of millions so aligned ... and counting.
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BUT it's certainly not just a "radical fringe" either. There really are hundreds of millions so aligned ... and counting.
Would like to see the source for that comment. I think this is the problem we have with Islam. Mohammed was a warrior, Jesus was not. Yes, parts of the Quran are anything but peaceful but how about the "eye for an eye" stance? To make such broad statements as above stirs up some hate and fear which cannot be supported by any real evidence but yet many make and believe such ideas.
Would like to see the source for that comment. I think this is the problem we have with Islam. Mohammed was a warrior, Jesus was not. Yes, parts of the Quran are anything but peaceful but how about the "eye for an eye" stance? To make such broad statements as above stirs up some hate and fear which cannot be supported by any real evidence but yet many make and believe such ideas.
JJJakubowski
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The beat goes on
"Would like to see the source for that comment."
" ... but how about the 'eye for an eye' stance?"
"...such broad statements as above stirs up some hate and fear which cannot be supported by any real evidence"
=======
I'm baaaaack … after a visit to my daughter's young family with my first grandchild, who live not too far from San Bernadino. And, I gotta tell you, it's my loving concern for 8 month old granddaughter's future (not "just" our country and the world) that largely motivates my re-engaging in such discussions. My apologies for "lecturing" here. But it's not academic, it's personal. Anyway, in response to RPH/CarWash Guy's last assertions and request:
Geez, are you really that uninformed when it comes to The New Testament and Jesus' teachings?!! When He was specifically asked about The Old Testament permission to "take an eye for an eye", Jesus boldly refuted that 4,000 year old Jewish Scripture and directed His followers to "turn the other cheek".
Carwash Guy also requested a "source" evidence of my assertion that there are 100's of millions of Muslims supportive of violent jihad. I referenced numerous polls (links above) that did exactly that. Okay, so lets give it yet another go:
After 9/11, Arthur Cummings, Executive Director of the FBI counter terrorism section revealed that "10% of the 2,000 mosques were actively preaching jihad and hatred of America". Cummings was also in charge of the nationwide outreach program to engage Muslim imams and religion leaders to help identify radicalized individuals. The FBI has been terribly frustrated by a lack of cooperation. Cummings was told at a conference with American Muslim hierarchy that they could not (would not) identify likely terrorists in their midst. They explained --- "doing so will cause us to lose our constituency". That is, the determination NOT to assist law enforcement is very wide and deep in the "devout" mosque-attending Muslim community. So much so that imams would have to say "buh-bye" to their congregations, prestige and "jobs" if they were to cooperate with law enforcement.
Perhaps MURRA and RPH consider themselves to be much better informed and more insightful then the FBI. The Bureau could be a den of incompetent, stupid, lying racists. Because, after all, MURRA's Muslim friend (all 100% of him) seems to be such a nice guy. BTW, I'd bet that I have had considerably more close, personal connections to Muslim families then MURRA and RPH combined. And I too have some insightful personal anecdotes … which sadly help substantiate the polls and stats I had referenced.
Again, RPH says he wants to see some evidence that there are 100's of millions of "radical Muslims" --- what I insist should be characterized as "fundamentalist Muslims". That is, those who believe what is commanded in their "Holy Books" (Quran and Hadith), and, therefore, must support worldwide violent jihad. I had referenced some polls/links which are "in evidence". There have been many, many more surveys since 9/11. But MURRA says he "doesn't buy" any of the multitude of polls that are at odds with his personal, pro-Islamic Polly Anna prejudice. As was first noted so many centuries ago --- "There is none so blind as he who will not see".
(Continued)
"Would like to see the source for that comment."
" ... but how about the 'eye for an eye' stance?"
"...such broad statements as above stirs up some hate and fear which cannot be supported by any real evidence"
=======
I'm baaaaack … after a visit to my daughter's young family with my first grandchild, who live not too far from San Bernadino. And, I gotta tell you, it's my loving concern for 8 month old granddaughter's future (not "just" our country and the world) that largely motivates my re-engaging in such discussions. My apologies for "lecturing" here. But it's not academic, it's personal. Anyway, in response to RPH/CarWash Guy's last assertions and request:
Geez, are you really that uninformed when it comes to The New Testament and Jesus' teachings?!! When He was specifically asked about The Old Testament permission to "take an eye for an eye", Jesus boldly refuted that 4,000 year old Jewish Scripture and directed His followers to "turn the other cheek".
Carwash Guy also requested a "source" evidence of my assertion that there are 100's of millions of Muslims supportive of violent jihad. I referenced numerous polls (links above) that did exactly that. Okay, so lets give it yet another go:
After 9/11, Arthur Cummings, Executive Director of the FBI counter terrorism section revealed that "10% of the 2,000 mosques were actively preaching jihad and hatred of America". Cummings was also in charge of the nationwide outreach program to engage Muslim imams and religion leaders to help identify radicalized individuals. The FBI has been terribly frustrated by a lack of cooperation. Cummings was told at a conference with American Muslim hierarchy that they could not (would not) identify likely terrorists in their midst. They explained --- "doing so will cause us to lose our constituency". That is, the determination NOT to assist law enforcement is very wide and deep in the "devout" mosque-attending Muslim community. So much so that imams would have to say "buh-bye" to their congregations, prestige and "jobs" if they were to cooperate with law enforcement.
Perhaps MURRA and RPH consider themselves to be much better informed and more insightful then the FBI. The Bureau could be a den of incompetent, stupid, lying racists. Because, after all, MURRA's Muslim friend (all 100% of him) seems to be such a nice guy. BTW, I'd bet that I have had considerably more close, personal connections to Muslim families then MURRA and RPH combined. And I too have some insightful personal anecdotes … which sadly help substantiate the polls and stats I had referenced.
Again, RPH says he wants to see some evidence that there are 100's of millions of "radical Muslims" --- what I insist should be characterized as "fundamentalist Muslims". That is, those who believe what is commanded in their "Holy Books" (Quran and Hadith), and, therefore, must support worldwide violent jihad. I had referenced some polls/links which are "in evidence". There have been many, many more surveys since 9/11. But MURRA says he "doesn't buy" any of the multitude of polls that are at odds with his personal, pro-Islamic Polly Anna prejudice. As was first noted so many centuries ago --- "There is none so blind as he who will not see".
(Continued)
JJJakubowski
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(Continued)
The PEW Research Center is a non-partisan polling organization that is well respected … even within Lib/Left journalism. Choose if you will to be "blind" to the very disturbing results of the numerous PEW polls. After all, PEW is a "Western infidel" organization. Okay, so how about the polls by Al Jazeera --- THE most popular and respected news source by Muslims (especially Sunnis) worldwide?!! Muslims would be much more inclined to open up and share their true feelings with "one of their own" . Wouldn't they? And they have! To wit:
(https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...a-arabic-poll/ )
Even if you lop that credible 81% (of respondents being pro jihad) in half or even down to just a third --- you are still faced with, yes, 100's of millions of Muslims who are okay with their Islamic "Holy War" of terror!
The PEW Research Center is a non-partisan polling organization that is well respected … even within Lib/Left journalism. Choose if you will to be "blind" to the very disturbing results of the numerous PEW polls. After all, PEW is a "Western infidel" organization. Okay, so how about the polls by Al Jazeera --- THE most popular and respected news source by Muslims (especially Sunnis) worldwide?!! Muslims would be much more inclined to open up and share their true feelings with "one of their own" . Wouldn't they? And they have! To wit:
(https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...a-arabic-poll/ )
Even if you lop that credible 81% (of respondents being pro jihad) in half or even down to just a third --- you are still faced with, yes, 100's of millions of Muslims who are okay with their Islamic "Holy War" of terror!
Nice to make an assumption about my personal question connection to Muslims. My oldest daughter is married to a Muslim and converted to Islam. I have four grandchildren being raised as Muslims. I have had numerous conversations related to this discussion and I would definitely match my experience with Islam. From my experience they do not universally support any acts of terrorism or jihad based on their religion as you suggest.
You use many what you feel are indisputable statistics. I am reminded that Mark Twain once wrote "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Granted there are radical elements in Islam and it exists here in the US but to state that it is such common place in mosques to the extent you state borders on being ridiculous and without substance other than those "statistics" you love so much. I would argue that just because there is some radical speeches does not mean the entire mosque is radical. Followers of any faith seldom if ever follow the complete teachings on that religion.
I am not blind to the potential danger of radical Islam or terrorists. We have seen it all over the world. However to damn an entire religion and condemn them for the actions of a few is not as rational as you make it out to be. In fact I would say it is as irrational as those you condemn and only feeds their anger and supports their cause. I would not consider myself an Islamic sympathizer by any stretch even with my family's connection to Islam. I would not condemn any religion for acts taken by a some in the name of that religion. I would however consider myself one that supports all efforts to stamp out terrorism from any source.
You use many what you feel are indisputable statistics. I am reminded that Mark Twain once wrote "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Granted there are radical elements in Islam and it exists here in the US but to state that it is such common place in mosques to the extent you state borders on being ridiculous and without substance other than those "statistics" you love so much. I would argue that just because there is some radical speeches does not mean the entire mosque is radical. Followers of any faith seldom if ever follow the complete teachings on that religion.
I am not blind to the potential danger of radical Islam or terrorists. We have seen it all over the world. However to damn an entire religion and condemn them for the actions of a few is not as rational as you make it out to be. In fact I would say it is as irrational as those you condemn and only feeds their anger and supports their cause. I would not consider myself an Islamic sympathizer by any stretch even with my family's connection to Islam. I would not condemn any religion for acts taken by a some in the name of that religion. I would however consider myself one that supports all efforts to stamp out terrorism from any source.
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Well the comments have proven insightful. First let me state a fact: Yes, there are very peaceful Muslims. Now another fact:
The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
The Underwear Bomber was a Muslim
The U.S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
The Bali Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
The Moscow Theatre Attackers were Muslims
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims
This so caller religion has spread by the sword. Period. You do not see muslims riding bicycles around town in white shirts and passing out little information pamphlets about their religion. The radical ones have taken over ever since it started. They have vowed to continue to do so. So sit back, ignore it, and watch as it unfolds.
Proud to be an infidel.
The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
The Underwear Bomber was a Muslim
The U.S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
The Bali Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
The Moscow Theatre Attackers were Muslims
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims
This so caller religion has spread by the sword. Period. You do not see muslims riding bicycles around town in white shirts and passing out little information pamphlets about their religion. The radical ones have taken over ever since it started. They have vowed to continue to do so. So sit back, ignore it, and watch as it unfolds.
Proud to be an infidel.
JJJakubowski
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... and on ...
Anyway, it's maddening how many intelligent, good hearted folks lose it when anyone rationally, objectively, and, necessarily uses legit "statistics" to address the dangers inherent in fundamentalist Islam. We're labeled as haters, racists, bigoted knuckle draggers who are "damning and condemning a whole religion". It's in-freakin’-credible how that knee jerk Politically Correct response always kicks in! I'm not (please try to focus here) NOT "condemning a WHOLE religion" … and NOT the WHOLE mass of Muslims.
However, I am "condemning" the VERY sizable percentage of “devout” Muslims who, shall we say, take all of the Quaran "as Gospel". Is it 10% ("only" 150, million +)? Or as many as 80% (1.3 BILLION)?!! I’d ask — “where do you split that big fat, bloody hair?” But it’s painfully obvious (as Europe has come to realize) that some simply choose not to THINK about such things ... until it’s too late. Still, I have to ask — are you (in your heart of hearts and/or your left brain) as totally blasé as Obama when it comes to shipping 10,000 unvetted "vetted refugees” from “ISIS central” into this country?
CarWash Guy, I truly commend you for engaging your your Muslim family in this important discussion. If you dare, consider asking them, "exactly which pages of the Quaran do you reject?" And/or, "exactly in which Quaranic verses/sura was Mohammed in error?" And/or, "does your imam instruct those in his mosque to disavow the following:
1. Infidels are those who declare: “God is the Christ.” (Sura 5:17)
2. Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. (Sura 9:123)
3. The infidels are your sworn enemies. (Sura 4:101)
4. When you meet the enemy — strike off their heads. (Sura 47:4)
5. Those who follow Mohammed are ruthless to infidels. (Sura 48:29)
6. Make war on the infidel. (Sura 66:9)
7. Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them. (Sura 2:191)
8. Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (Sura 5:51)
9. Never be a helper to the disbelievers. (Sura 28:86)
10. War with those who do not believe in Allah. (Sura 9:29)
11. Those who make war on Allah … will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet cut off. (Sura 5:33)
(Continued)
I may have made an error when I assumed that my inter faith/personal experience was more exhaustive than CarWash Guy's. Just for the record: • My early Major was World Comparative Religions. • I've had friendly relationships with several Muslim individuals (2 of whom assisted my wife and I in the care of our terminally incapacitated parents). • But, more importantly and insightfully --- very close, long term connections to 3 multi-generational Muslim families. Two included my daughter's "very best girl friends" and the other were our next door neighbors (with a good boy friend). Hmmm, so I still might have a “numerical advantage” on you guys. But, what the heck, who's counting?
Anyway, it's maddening how many intelligent, good hearted folks lose it when anyone rationally, objectively, and, necessarily uses legit "statistics" to address the dangers inherent in fundamentalist Islam. We're labeled as haters, racists, bigoted knuckle draggers who are "damning and condemning a whole religion". It's in-freakin’-credible how that knee jerk Politically Correct response always kicks in! I'm not (please try to focus here) NOT "condemning a WHOLE religion" … and NOT the WHOLE mass of Muslims.
However, I am "condemning" the VERY sizable percentage of “devout” Muslims who, shall we say, take all of the Quaran "as Gospel". Is it 10% ("only" 150, million +)? Or as many as 80% (1.3 BILLION)?!! I’d ask — “where do you split that big fat, bloody hair?” But it’s painfully obvious (as Europe has come to realize) that some simply choose not to THINK about such things ... until it’s too late. Still, I have to ask — are you (in your heart of hearts and/or your left brain) as totally blasé as Obama when it comes to shipping 10,000 unvetted "vetted refugees” from “ISIS central” into this country?
CarWash Guy, I truly commend you for engaging your your Muslim family in this important discussion. If you dare, consider asking them, "exactly which pages of the Quaran do you reject?" And/or, "exactly in which Quaranic verses/sura was Mohammed in error?" And/or, "does your imam instruct those in his mosque to disavow the following:
1. Infidels are those who declare: “God is the Christ.” (Sura 5:17)
2. Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. (Sura 9:123)
3. The infidels are your sworn enemies. (Sura 4:101)
4. When you meet the enemy — strike off their heads. (Sura 47:4)
5. Those who follow Mohammed are ruthless to infidels. (Sura 48:29)
6. Make war on the infidel. (Sura 66:9)
7. Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them. (Sura 2:191)
8. Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (Sura 5:51)
9. Never be a helper to the disbelievers. (Sura 28:86)
10. War with those who do not believe in Allah. (Sura 9:29)
11. Those who make war on Allah … will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet cut off. (Sura 5:33)
(Continued)
JJJakubowski
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- 28
(Continued)
There are about 100 more such "peaceful" Islamic verses, but I won't bore you with that disturbingly long list … or challenge your Muslim kin. If you did, you’d have to take their answers with a lump of salt. Because (if they are not “heretics” and they do believe what their Quaran instructs) they must subscribe to "al-Taqiyya" --- the Quaran's proscription that makes a virtue of deception and lying to unbelievers (such as yourself) if it benefits Islam (to include their "standing" in a non-Islamic community). Islam is decidedly and inherently (by Mohammed’s original, unambiguous design) NOT a pick ‘n choose, cafeteria style religion. True believers must take the barbaric bitter with the peaceful sweet.
CarWash Guy, your opinions regarding Islam are heartfelt --- what you sincerely “feel” and “hope” and “want to believe”. They are based in personal anecdotes and optimistic biases. God Bless you, but they are not arrived at via informed critical thinking and analysis. As for me --- I must accept ugly truths before a pretty falsehoods.
There are about 100 more such "peaceful" Islamic verses, but I won't bore you with that disturbingly long list … or challenge your Muslim kin. If you did, you’d have to take their answers with a lump of salt. Because (if they are not “heretics” and they do believe what their Quaran instructs) they must subscribe to "al-Taqiyya" --- the Quaran's proscription that makes a virtue of deception and lying to unbelievers (such as yourself) if it benefits Islam (to include their "standing" in a non-Islamic community). Islam is decidedly and inherently (by Mohammed’s original, unambiguous design) NOT a pick ‘n choose, cafeteria style religion. True believers must take the barbaric bitter with the peaceful sweet.
CarWash Guy, your opinions regarding Islam are heartfelt --- what you sincerely “feel” and “hope” and “want to believe”. They are based in personal anecdotes and optimistic biases. God Bless you, but they are not arrived at via informed critical thinking and analysis. As for me --- I must accept ugly truths before a pretty falsehoods.
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
JJJ & others,
I used to a bit too naive when it comes to "not being prepared for the worst" from some human beings & what they embrace as their greatest motivating force. Since we have had many Muslims come to our community with the oil boom low unemployment etc ... not all are bad ... but they should not be given preference ... & this is what some of them demand. I learned the hard way that voice recordings & very high resolution video was & is needed for law enforcement to offset some of their deceptions & retelling of what actually happened when the police have had to be called in to handle some of the extreme aggressive behavior of some. To listen to some of them & how they disrespect property ownership & what our Constitution actually says & how they "try" to use intimidation ... tells us to be a little extra wary ... until they prove themselves in a thoroughly enough better overall way! This is based on some real life tough encounters ... probably more so within the laundromat portion of our business than the car wash portion of our business. I do not know how many of us are in a position to pay our help ... the extra needed ... for "combat duty higher risk" work. I applaud JJJ for using his background & taking an honest look at the root of some of the problems ... "words do have an impact" ... & misinformation needs to be countered.
mike walsh www.kingkoin.com
I used to a bit too naive when it comes to "not being prepared for the worst" from some human beings & what they embrace as their greatest motivating force. Since we have had many Muslims come to our community with the oil boom low unemployment etc ... not all are bad ... but they should not be given preference ... & this is what some of them demand. I learned the hard way that voice recordings & very high resolution video was & is needed for law enforcement to offset some of their deceptions & retelling of what actually happened when the police have had to be called in to handle some of the extreme aggressive behavior of some. To listen to some of them & how they disrespect property ownership & what our Constitution actually says & how they "try" to use intimidation ... tells us to be a little extra wary ... until they prove themselves in a thoroughly enough better overall way! This is based on some real life tough encounters ... probably more so within the laundromat portion of our business than the car wash portion of our business. I do not know how many of us are in a position to pay our help ... the extra needed ... for "combat duty higher risk" work. I applaud JJJ for using his background & taking an honest look at the root of some of the problems ... "words do have an impact" ... & misinformation needs to be countered.
mike walsh www.kingkoin.com
