Advice on pumps, rebuilding pump stand-part 2

[slash007]

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Since my first thread turned into a pump war lol, I wanted to start another thread with a couple of questions...

I have a question on RO membranes. I want to change the 2 membranes before I install it, but not sure if I should get the cold or hot water versions. I will be using hot water, but I know that some people use the cold water version regardless. Pros/cons to each? Also, for a JC pump stand, anyone know what size membranes I need to buy?

Second, attached is a picture of the current pump. Since I have to replace everything for the 4 missing pumps, should I keep it exactly the same setup, or is there a better way to set it up (cleaner/simpler)? Also, any parts that I should get different versions of since I am buying new? Like the solenoid (I'd likely run at 1300 psi) para plate, the pre-soak regulator, etc? I also see a pop off valve. Is that needed?

 

[Greg Pack]

They should be 4x40 membranes.

 

[MEP001]

I'd get rid of the setup to run the RO through the HP pumps and add a separate delivery system. Unless the lines to the bays are all very short, you'll have a long changeover time from the last high pressure cycle to spot-free at the gun.

I wouldn't bother with the pop-off valve. I've worked on hundreds of washes and the few times I've seen them installed they were put there because of a problem that caused the need instead of just correcting the problem.

 

[slash007]

I'd get rid of the setup to run the RO through the HP pumps and add a separate delivery system. Unless the lines to the bays are all very short, you'll have a long changeover time from the last high pressure cycle to spot-free at the gun.

I wouldn't bother with the pop-off valve. I've worked on hundreds of washes and the few times I've seen them installed they were put there because of a problem that caused the need instead of just correcting the problem.

Thanks for your thoughts. I do have 3 bays on each side, so it is not too long. I have the same setup on a 5 bay that are all in a row, so I'll check and see how it does over there. Regarding the solenoid valve, the DEMA 453p says it's rated at 1200 psi. If I want to run my pumps at 1300, do I need a different valve?

Also, I like the para plate regulator, but the one that is behind the solenoid and controls how much pressure goes to the pre-soak, what kind is that? I'm not sure what I need to get exactly.

Thanks.

 

[DiamondWash]

Here is my pump setup very similar to yours.

 

[slash007]

Steve, nice setup. I like that you can replace the pump head without having to remove a million items. Takes me forever to switch it out.

 

[MEP001]

Regarding the solenoid valve, the DEMA 453p says it's rated at 1200 psi. If I want to run my pumps at 1300, do I need a different valve?

The Dema won't be able to open if you're running much above 1200 PSI. I don't know off the top of my head of any solenoids that can handle higher pressure. Are you sure that's for the presoak and not the spot-free? Either way I'd rather run a separate delivery pump.

Also, I like the para plate regulator, but the one that is behind the solenoid and controls how much pressure goes to the pre-soak, what kind is that? I'm not sure what I need to get exactly.

I can't tell from the picture if that's an Adams 7075 or a SMC 555 series, although the SMC has a low-pressure spring version where the Adams can't regulate below about 400 PSI. If you try to adjust below that with the pump running, the adjuster comes off and the internal parts go everywhere.

 

[cwguy.com]

I can't tell from the picture if that's an Adams 7075 or a SMC 555 series

Manual says smc 555

The ryco pump stand seems like the best engineered unit. Until you look at what controls it and it seems way to complex. No offense.

 

[slash007]

Thanks for the clarifying Eric. I know that I have turned it down to 300psi and it was fine, so that ruled out the Adams. Mep, I think I had it wrong. The solenoid in the picture is probably for the spot free. The pump solenoids are all GC valves and are at the bottom, not by the pump. So no issues with PSI. I know that turning down the SMC regulator lowers the pressure on the pre-soak, so maybe it controls both that and spot free? I really need to figure out how everything works so that I understand it and can rebuild my used stand. Understanding how everything runs is key.

I looked at my running stand and it seems like hot water is fed to the holding tank, but cold water runs to the hydrominders and also to the pump solenoids. I know that when rinse is used, it also draws water from the holding tank. So it is mixing hot and cold? There are also lines going from the rinse tank to the hydrominders for the functions that use double water (concentrated), so are those using hot+cold water as well? I think most functions other than pre-soak and tire cleaner have the double inlets. I would have thought that pre-soak would be a function that used hot water, so I'm confused

View attachment 893

Blue line goes to the pump solenoid, red line comes from the rinse tank. The two 1/4" lines are soap and wax I think. Middle line is either spot free or pre-soak, I didn't check to see if it was 1/4" or 3/8".

 

[cwguy.com]

Red lines come from the copper fittings on the floor.

 

[cwguy.com]

Check values are from the rinse tank.

There is no mixing of hot and cold.... there is a check valve.

 

[slash007]

Red lines come from the copper fittings on the floor.

Your right. I meant the blue hose goes to the pump, the red HP hose goes to the pump solenoids below. So is cold water from the Red HP hose and hot water from the rinse tank mix then go to the pump via the blue hose? The check valve prevents water from going up into the rinse tank... right? Maybe I'm just seeing it wrong? But there is a large cold water line going to the regulator right before all of the pump solenoids.

 

[cwguy.com]

No the blue hose carries all water to the pump.... that is the only way to get water to the pump.

You either get it from the tank or from the red line.

The red line is a higher pressure. The check valve is gravity feed.

 

[cwguy.com]

 

[slash007]

So basically if it's on rinse, water is coming from the red line. If using soap or wax or pre-soak, then the red line is off and all the water is coming from the tank? That makes sense and explains it. So rinse would be cold water, the rest use the hot water from the tank. Thanks! I've sure I'll have a million more questions lol. I am going to look for the book and try to figure out the electric before I get started. Do you know for sure what RO membranes are used? It was suggested that they are 4.40, but you might know since you use the same system.

 

[cwguy.com]

That is assuming you are heating your holding tank?

I believe you are correct with the 3 hoses that go under the holding tank. (Pre-soak, hp soap and hp wax). These are pulled into the water supply. (Diluded with holding tank water.)

Not sure how the ro works.... I do not have that function on my SS. I believe it has to be separate like mep1 was implying.

 

[MEP001]

Just measure the RO housing. It'll most likely be 4 x 40, and if the housing is anywhere close to that you'll know for sure.

 

[cwguy.com]

Just measure the RO housing. It'll most likely be 4 x 40, and if the housing is anywhere close to that you'll know for sure.

Both mep1 and cwcf are probably correct. But the manual only says "RO ASS’Y, 4”, COLD/TAP WATER"

Which is on my site somewhere?

 

[pcb]

My Coleman pump stand looks just like yours. The dema solenoid opens to bypass the pressure for the low pressure functions like my presoak and rainx. I have a separate Cat pump, I think a 530, that is high volume low pressure for the spot free delivery and a solenoid bank for the spot free. Separate tubing from that block delivers the spot free to the boom bypassing the high pressure hose. I doubt your spot free is running through the bay pump.

I also have the 4 x 40 membranes on my spot free production.

 

[slash007]

My Coleman pump stand looks just like yours. The dema solenoid opens to bypass the pressure for the low pressure functions like my presoak and rainx. I have a separate Cat pump, I think a 530, that is high volume low pressure for the spot free delivery and a solenoid bank for the spot free. Separate tubing from that block delivers the spot free to the boom bypassing the high pressure hose. I doubt your spot free is running through the bay pump.

I also have the 4 x 40 membranes on my spot free production.

After looking at it, the spot free does not run through the pump. Only wax, soap and pre-soak. Instead of a separate cat pump, there is a rocket looking pump mounted on the rear that works with a solenoid block in the RO front and sends it out to the bay at medium pressure. there are two of those, one is a re-pressurization pump, and the other I assume is for production. I need to check the gauge to see what it's set at, but it has it's own regulator. I've never adjusted it. For Rain-X, are you just running that instead of clear coat and using the that tank, or did you add a separate tank and hydrominder setup? I plan on using Rain-X with this pump stand and wasn't sure what to do. I know that it offers both low and high pressure wax, but they are using the same chemical.

Eric, I am running hot water to my holding tank at one wash. For the new stand I bought, it has something screwed into the bottom right rear inlet of the holding tank. There is a squiggly wire sticking out of it and then it runs to a thermostat that is attached to the rear of the stand. The wire from the thermostat is cut off, so no idea what it ran to. Any idea what that is?