Soap delivery issues...

[MEP001]

Can you draw a "map" of how each pump is plumbed, where any check valves are what solenoids are in place and what they do, etc.?

Do you know if the pumps are fed with city pressure on rinse? If so, there should be a check valve in place to prevent that pressure from backing up into the soap tank, and one of those check valves could be bad or sticking intermittently.

 

[mrfixit]

I'm guessing you have a flojet injection system. What are you injecting into the pumps with? If it's Flo jet replace the Flo jet and add an air line dryer ahead of it. Flojet can intermittently stick with moisture in the air.

 

[HCW]

Remove and check all check-valves from other chemicals on this bay. As mentioned earlier, if a check-valve is leaking by it'll dilute your soap.

 

[spf8298]

Can you draw a "map" of how each pump is plumbed, where any check valves are what solenoids are in place and what they do, etc.?

Do you know if the pumps are fed with city pressure on rinse? If so, there should be a check valve in place to prevent that pressure from backing up into the soap tank, and one of those check valves could be bad or sticking intermittently.

Note: Foam brush, presoak, and high pressure soap all come from the same soap tank - not the way I like it set up, but it’s how it was when we bought it. We are probably going to add another tank and hydrominder for separate presoak




Path of high pressure Soap:

1. 55 gallon drum Mix Tank
2. Hydominder soap tank
3. Flo jet
4. Solenoid manifold
5. ¼ inch poly (about 15-20 foot runs) to the hot water side of the Hypro 2410 pump – there are no check valves in this line

Path of foam brush soap:

1. 55 gallon drum mix tank
2. Hydrominder soap tank
3. Flo-jet
4. Solenoid manifold where its mixed with air and pumped to the bays
5. ¼ inch poly to the bays – there are check valves coming off the soap manifold poly lines that are T’d into the air manifold

Path of presoak
1. 55 gallon drum mix tank
2. Hydrominder soap tank
3. It gravity feeds to 3 separate solenoid valves and then goes to the bays via 3/8 poly line

Our water all comes from city water supply. There are no pressure regulators on the city water.

/Users/FarmerandSon/Desktop/Soap & Wax Manifold Pic.jpg
/Users/FarmerandSon/Desktop/Top Pump setup copy.jpg
/Users/FarmerandSon/Desktop/Water Manifold.jpg

 

[spf8298]

http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums...Wax Manifold Pic_zpsrjubchhf.jpg?t=1469451456
http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj565/spf8298/Water Manifold_zpsvratq8fm.jpg?t=1469451460
http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj565/spf8298/Top Pump setup copy_zpsi5mgcagf.jpg?t=1469451460

 

[mrfixit]

You should have a spare flojet pump. Replace the flow jet now...

Or turn up the air pressure to the Flo jet first. The pressure must be equal or higher than the maximum city pressure. Pressure is key to making it work. Air pressure Gages go bad and read wrong so turn it up till it starts pumping and see.

It's either too low a pressure to overcome the max WP. Or the flojet is sticking. When other bays are turned on the line pressure reduces. A flojet can and will randomly not start up when the pump is aged, has moisture in the air lines, or pressure is set too low. No soap on a pressure fed flojet injection is a problem I've seen far too many times.

The flojet looks really small. If your running city pressure near 80psi I would have a flojet g57 in there or similar spec.

It looks like your system is similar to how mine was set up. I have the same pump stand but pumps are mounted straight. Interesting at an angle.

 

[spf8298]

You should have a spare flojet pump. Replace the flow jet now...

Or turn up the air pressure to the Flo jet first. The pressure must be equal or higher than the maximum city pressure. Pressure is key to making it work. Air pressure Gages go bad and read wrong so turn it up till it starts pumping and see.

It's either too low a pressure to overcome the max WP. Or the flojet is sticking. When other bays are turned on the line pressure reduces. A flojet can and will randomly not start up when the pump is aged, has moisture in the air lines, or pressure is set too low. No soap on a pressure fed flojet injection is a problem I've seen far too many times.

The flojet looks really small. If your running city pressure near 80psi I would have a flojet g57 in there or similar spec.

It looks like your system is similar to how mine was set up. I have the same pump stand but pumps are mounted straight. Interesting at an angle.

We just replaced the G57 Flo-Jet that runs the soap functions last month. We also installed a new air compressor, drip leg and flo-jec air dryer/extractor. The smaller flo-jet in the pictures runs our wax. Our flo-jet pressure is set at 60 psi. Our city water pressure is set at between 55-65 psi depending on the water tower level.
It could be the issue that we have the flo-jet pressure set too low. I'm going to adjust it to 67 psi and see if that rectifies.

 

[mrfixit]

I would, if the city pressure is 62 you likely won't get much soap flojeting at 60.

Overall the whole setup is inconsistent though with fluctuating line pressure feeding the pumps. I really need a pressure regulator to regulate the pressure to the pumps so I can get even chemical delivery at all times. If I went to 40psi then I can set flojet at 42-45 and be good. I also consider the pressure drop when the flojet turns on so check the pressure while it's pumping not idle to be accurate.

What happens is the water line pressure drops when the auto kicks on, and the chemical injection increases since it has to be run high enough to overcome the higher line pressure when everything is idle.

 

[spf8298]

I would, if the city pressure is 62 you likely won't get much soap flojeting at 60.

Overall the whole setup is inconsistent though with fluctuating line pressure feeding the pumps. I really need a pressure regulator to regulate the pressure to the pumps so I can get even chemical delivery at all times. If I went to 40psi then I can set flojet at 42-45 and be good. I also consider the pressure drop when the flojet turns on so check the pressure while it's pumping not idle to be accurate.

What happens is the water line pressure drops when the auto kicks on, and the chemical injection increases since it has to be run high enough to overcome the higher line pressure when everything is idle.

I stopped down at the wash and adjusted the air pressure to the flo-jets to 68 psi to be safe. I think what is happening, is we live in a small town and when the water tower is full, there is an overabundance of pressure on the city water side, and as the water level of the tower drops, the pressure subsides. This may account for why we have the intermittent soap loss. I agree with a lot of you, (mrfixit, Randy, MEP001), I think I need to install the generant pressure regulators on our self serve bay pumps to get a more consistent water pressure. I'll keep you all posted. I appreciate the input from all of you.

Shaun

 

[2Biz]

IMHO...I think you'll be chasing your tail with this setup. Even if you regulate the water on the chemical side, injecting soap and wax will be problematic. The proper way to introduce soap and wax for this type setup is to use a dema injector like I believe Randy has already mentioned. This is the way his is set up. Another alternative is to put in a hot water float tank and gravity feed the pumps and vacuum feed chemicals. That way you can set it and forget it! We won't even bring water hardness into all this!