Hard water for the high pressure rinse in automatics

[copperglobe]

I've read other posts about running hard water to the high pressure rinse in automatics but haven't heard any opinions on results. My two questions: 1- Is it worth it? 2- Does the final spot free rinse take care of spotting?

Looking for ways to save on salt and my regenerations on the softeners. Thanks

 

[Greg Pack]

I finally did it. I can't detect a decrease in wash quality.

 

[loewem]

I finally did it. I can't detect a decrease in wash quality.

cfcw - how about the savings on salt and regenerations? Any idea of the savings?

 

[soapy]

I have used hard water for the HP rinse for over 20 years on all my automatics. SFR takes care of any spotting for me. With 20 grain hard water it would not be cost effective for me to use soft water for the HP rinse.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Absolutely switch to hard water rinse. We have been using hard water rinse in all of our automatics for years. That is way too much water to soften for no reason. You'll rinse better with hard water and save a ton on salt. The last two washes we bought were set up for all soft water. With a little reconfiguration of the plumbing, we went from a bag of salt for every 130 cars to a bag for every 380. There really is no reason to not make the switch.

 

[Greg Pack]

cfcw - how about the savings on salt and regenerations? Any idea of the savings?

I'm thinking I'm using approximately 1/4th the salt I previously used. Did n't seem a big deal when it was a couple bucks a bag. But it seems like the price of salt is climbing rapidly.

 

[loewem]

This is good information. Every savings is good savings. I need to have some work done on my plumbing, so this is very helpful to know as I figure out what needs to change. This also seems important to know when purchasing a new water softening system. Shouldn't need as high a capacity system when using city water for the rinse functions. Basically, softened water should be used for mixing with soaps and for the RO system. Is that a correct statement? Everything else can be hard water. I'm pretty sure that I'm flushing softened water....

 

[copperglobe]

This is good information. Every savings is good savings. I need to have some work done on my plumbing, so this is very helpful to know as I figure out what needs to change. This also seems important to know when purchasing a new water softening system. Shouldn't need as high a capacity system when using city water for the rinse functions. Basically, softened water should be used for mixing with soaps and for the RO system. Is that a correct statement? Everything else can be hard water. I'm pretty sure that I'm flushing softened water....

I agree. By far the majority of my softened water is going to the hp rinse in the automatics. Save wear and tear on the water softeners and that salt bill will help.

 

[Jeff_L]

What do you do with your RO reject? That's good water, softened, dechlorinated, filtered, etc. I store mine in holding tanks and use it for thr rinse in my automatics.

 

[loewem]

What do you do with your RO reject? That's good water, softened, dechlorinated, filtered, etc. I store mine in holding tanks and use it for thr rinse in my automatics.

I'm also able to store mine in a tank and use it for the hp automatic rinse.

 

[Waxman]

My HP rinse on my automatic combines city water, well water and r.o. reject. I throttle the valves and adjust the floats so that primarily well water is used, secondarily city water and the r.o. reject supplements the other 2 while r.o. reject tank has water in it.

 

[bobcat9095]

I've thought about doing this too, but my drying agent and rain shield are applied through HP(conserve). I'm wondering if the hard water will decrease the quality?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I've thought about doing this too, but my drying agent and rain shield are applied through HP(conserve). I'm wondering if the hard water will decrease the quality?

Won't be an issue. You're water will still bead like before.

 

[Bud]

Does this mean very high TDS well water could also be used for the HP rinse?

 

[mrfixit]

Awesome to see this topic up, I still haven't re-plumbed our system for hard... The salt is draining money for sure. High impact rinse at 40 gpm and everything softened, all chemicals are put on with RO.. That's how it was set up.. I need to get this job done..

On the high tds well water I would say your probably fine, pumps are usually rated for water quality. Our city water is well water I think the tds was like 3-400. 24 grains hard and I wasn't expecting a problem. I think Iron content is a bigger issue than tds.

 

[mrfixit]

I finally did it. I can't detect a decrease in wash quality.

Great to hear... Motivate me to get it done.. It's money down the drain. This winters been weak, weak, no snow! Lots of rain, our worst enemy.

 

[copperglobe]

I'm the OP and I finally made the switch to hard water this past week- after 28 years of soft water on the HP rinse in the automatics. Now I've got soft putting on the chemicals, hard water rinses and RO at the end. Soft still going to the RO unit and all the SS steps. Soft water gallons have plummeted as you would expect.

I have noticed no change in the automatic washes. In fact, and this may be my imagination or wishful thinking, I believe that the end product is better. The wax falls off better with the hard than the soft which results in the RO falling off better as well.

Probably just my imagination. Glad we finally got it done even though 2 inch copper pipe ain't cheap.

 

[termn8tr]

Not your imagination, and i bet vehicles are
coming out drier as well!

 

[mrfixit]

Yeah, not imagination.. That's what I read would happen,
(read here for full understanding. Great article. ) ..

I always imagined it, glad to know it's true!

Yeah the copper was holding me up, kind of a long run, but it's more than worth it. Can't wait to do it.

 

[copperglobe]

I'm the OP and thought I'd give an update. I've had hard water in the automatic HP for about two months now. The only negative, if it's a negative, is the hard water overspray making the walls and surrounding blockwork white with the mineral and such. However, one thing that I've noticed as well, and this may because it's only been two months, I don't notice the FRP walls in the bays getting as dirty looking/that dark-ish water slime scum that builds up over time on the white FRP panels. For 30 years the automatic walls have required us to clean them periodically of this slime/dirt/crud from the FRP panels to whiten them up. The white FRP panels still look great after two months of hard water and not slimy. My guess is there's hard water building up on the FRP keeping things white. I'll clean the panels with my normal cleaners in a few weeks and see how they clean up. Still like the way cars bead-up with the hard water and how the glass ends up.

No negative consequences from the equipment, solenoids, swivels, etc.

Just my observations so far.