Washwordl Razor Vs. PDQ 360

[washregal]

Ok - I know this is probably an overdone question - but .. I have real concerns. Alot of the Razor features I like - material of construction remote functions etc.. But I am concerned about my distributors - lack of response - almost zero in regard to my questions...People are telling e I need to invest in the service of machine and for the most part look past the machine. Thinking if my distributors have not time for me before I am ready to spend all this money - imagine once they have my money - what then...

On the other hand - I have Razor owners telling me I should consider PDQ - not just for their machine .. but for the service that their distributor provides.. This is a big deal!!!

Washworld tech support I have been hearing is second to none - just really cautious about the distributor field support. What do I do?

 

[soonermajic]

You don't have info on your profile about where you live.
Your instincts are rarely wrong. If your distributor doesn't have 5 minutes to answer your emails, then he prolly isn't the guy you wanna spend 6 figures with. IMHO

 

[pcb]

I've had a 360 for almost 3 years and I'm very pleased with it. There are a few things I don't like but after looking at the 360 plus is seems that they have corrected almost every thing that I don't like. I have a very good distributor and that is the reason I went with this machine. I have some touchless machines getting close to time for replacement and will go with the 360 plus because I know I can count on my distributor to take care of me. I know you asked about install costs and my 360 was I believe $12500 and I think I paid the electrician about $3000 for labor and material. No plumbing costs as anyone can run pvc.

 

[washregal]

Perry -

Getting alot of feedback on the machines - both seem very nice - I have to say was leaning alot toward the Razor - but knowing my lack of distributor support - your words are very re-assuring on the PDQ - One thing that comes up is that parts are porpriatary and users do not like this .. more expense etc.. I am one that fees as though you wouldn't want to mickey mouse the system you just bought with outside products.. Cheaper isnt always better - Have you found PDQ pricing to be exceptionally high on parts / repairs? also how do you find their customer service to be? - In addition - what chemicals do you use and how are they working with the 360? - What things didnt you like that the 360 plus fixed? - Sorry for all the questions - just a really big decision.

 

[pcb]

Yes, most of the parts are propriatary and while I don't necessarily like that, when you get down to it on most new machines I think a lot of the parts will be. Gear boxes, belts, computer nodes and the such are just part of the game. Most of the everyday wear items you can find somewhere else and isn't really a problem. I haven't had many problems with the machine. The biggest problem i've had is the tech changed the arch rotate switch that reads in degrees and a few days later it was losing coms with the bridge node. He worked as hard as he could and as late as needed to find the problem and ultimately it was the new switch. It took a few days to get it sorted out but I was there with him and knew he was doing what he could as hard as he could so I don't have a problem with that. Other than that it has just been small problems. I did have the belts and rollers changed around the 2 year mark just so I didn't have to worry about them. I wash cars for a living and if the machine isn't working I'm losing money and don't have a job to make it up, so I don't mickey mouse with it. If the wash needs it, it gets it. I think all parts from any manufacture are over priced but PDQ isn't any worse. I haven't dealt with the factory on anything so I can't comment on that. I do most repairs myself and I still believe it's very important to have a distributor that knows what they are doing and can get you up and going as quick as possible.

I use Cul-Mac chemicals and just to keep it on the up and up I do sell their chemicals to a few other washes. I use the Thunder Xtreme presoak 2 passes on the 360 and the same on my water wizards. I feel like I get a clean car and am pleased with the products. I don't even figure cost per car. I'm more concerned with the product i'm putting out than trying to save a few cents. I don't waste but I don't skimp. I use other chemicals in my tunnels and I'm the same way with them. I will say the chemical consumption is much better on the 360 than the 4000 I took out. I get a lot more cars out of a drum with the 360.

My biggest problem with the machine is the fact that it uses the high pressure pump for the hot wax and the low pressure rinse. So on my top wash using the productivity rain arch to rinse it puts on tri foam, high pressure pump comes on to rinse, rainx, high pressure to rinse, hot wax is high pressure pump, then r.o. is high pressure pump. The new one as far as I know has a separate pump to keep from turning on the hp pump so much. The bridge is laid out much better in my opinion. I looked at it in Vegas a few weeks back and looks like it will be easier to work on. Sorry for the loooonnng post but hope it helps.

 

[bryan church]

I am a carwash tech. My company has both units, I would go with the PDQ 360 over the Washworld Razor. Hands down.

 

[Overachiever]

I am a carwash tech. My company has both units, I would go with the PDQ 360 over the Washworld Razor. Hands down.

Based on what?

 

[sparkey]

Every electrical item on the razor can be purchased over the counter. Nothing is propriety. Anyone can call washworld for tech support. You are not forced to go through your distributor if you don't want to. I have called washworld directly many times. They don't ask for any type of service agreement, don't care if you purchased the machine used, you will get the same great support.

 

[Overachiever]

I don't own either machine yet but another PRO for WashWorld is that they offer free classes for equipment owners at their HQ (not sure of the quality of the courses or if they still do it though but it's still pretty awesome). I can't speak for PDQ if they do the same.

 

[karen WW]

Yes, Overachiever, Washworld does still offer free technical training classes for our owners and operators. Information on upcoming classes can be found on the Customer Care dropdown menu on our website at www.washworldinc.com

 

[washregal]

Thank you Karen - Alot to think about here.. both machines are very nice and I think are comparable at this point.

 

[Jeff_L]

...Anyone can call washworld for tech support. You are not forced to go through your distributor if you don't want to. I have called washworld directly many times. They don't ask for any type of service agreement, don't care if you purchased the machine used, you will get the same great support.

Same goes for PDQ. Get their techs on the line and they'll walk through all the troubleshooting steps. If it's parts you need, they'll tell you the part Number. I then take that to my distributor, purchase through them, then install them myself. I've had my 360 for 3 years. Love it,it's a workhorse.

 

[washregal]

- Question to the forum on the Washworld Razor and the 360 Plus - is there alot of sheer pin replacements needed annually on the arch? Also seemed to be alot of customers bang into the arch or many arch faults - is this typical of razor and lazer? I know both can be reset virtually as well as the machines for the most part reset unless a critical fault - how often are these critical faults.

Also belts on the 360 look flimsy to me - Are these fairly long lasting - fairly easy maintain in terms of the entire machine? Any recomendations on what spare parts to hold on either machines?

 

[Jeff_L]

PDQ360 -
In two years I've replaced 2 or 3 shear bolts on the arch. One was a driverlesscar that went through the door and into th parked arch. In that same time period I've replaced one belt. Lots of washes on the machine.

 

[MDrost1]

I am thinking about upgrading from my LW 4000. Worth it? : ). Is the learning curve for the 360 pretty steep? I have very little issue now with my 4000. I'd like to continue on that trajectory. Thanks!

 

[Jeff_L]

360 is a breeze, and I'd buy another. Just hang out with your installers and help them. Great way to get familiar with the machine.

 

[MDrost1]

Is there going to be a noticeable long term difference between the aluminum and stainless rails etc.?

 

[water guy]

We are at a Dilemma Razor or 360. my question was what about that aluminum rails verses the Stainless.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

I currently have a laser 4000 myself and I have been siting back making a lot of observations from my point of view looked at both machines hard and still am for the past 4-5 years. I think WashWorld construction of there machines is alot better stainless cleans up real nice 6+ years later and stronger & wears better from the control panel to the cat 3535 pump now WEG motors etc just a heavy duty setup. The 360 pumpstand I am not a fan of its pump is on the ground/bottom and the solinod manifold is slanted vs WashWorld pumpstand is similar to a complex 4000 and laid out very well to work on methodology, but i do see a lot of 360s chiming along. However your distributor can make or break the deal if they have a lot of parts in stock on the shelf vs having to order a lot of parts from WashWorld and your machine is down 2-3 days then that’s a problem in my eyes and you have to depend on yourself. PDQ does a excellent job at protecting there distributors and making them have so many parts on hand at all times. I don’t like that about WashWorld & they let so many distributors in 1 state and not protecting nobody it seems. We seen this with belenger 20+ years ago everyone was a distributor. I know this is off topic but can’t help but to notice PDQ is really focusing on the friction market and taking advantage of it which I see a lot more operators shifting to due to utilities getting More expensive and the customer expectation for a clean car is higher and they want to wash less. Like example WashWorld only has 1 profile in my entire state running while PDQ has 50+ tandems installed in my state. I wish I could see more from WW on that market side in the future from a customer buying a machine standpoint. I would go with what fits your situation better.

WashWorld does have excellent customer support and offers classes like mentioned above free in house for the end user vs PDQ wants the distributor working on the machine and I get that to protect them. Think about it have you ever seen a small PDQ distributor over the years in different states. Think about since 2001 when the 4000 was discontinued how far both manufacturers have came along since making the Laser 4000 how many different versions have been made without the Laser 4000 concept we wouldn’t be sitting here discussing which machine is better which is good because it’s only going to get better with all the technology now. I guess you still have to make your own judgement at the end of the day. This is coming from a small town chump just Paying attention.

 

[Waxman]

My distributor was really great when I bought my touchfree ( Superior Side trac). We still chat and I like him very much. However, after having it a few years and doing my own troubleshooting, repairs and maintenance, I found I no longer needed his help. Between online tech support and the Forum, any problems with either of these machines ( PDQ / WW ) should be easily remedied.

I'm leaning towards Washworld for my eventual upgrade. One of my reasons for the choice is simple; my friend Eric has multiple units. We can share spare parts and repair / troubleshooting info.