Water Softener install

[Overachiever]

For those of you that have replaced an existing water softener with a smaller unit how much did you pay for the install?

I bought a new softener and trying to go from 2" to 1.25" and removing automatics rinse from being soft water.

One quote I received said it would take them 2 days / 40 man hours - $7845 total. A couple other people who have come in didn't seem like they had the confidence to do the job and never got back to me with estimates.

My existing copper plumbing is a hot mess, so I think they are getting tunnel vision and thinking it's a harder job that it needs to be.

 

[BBE]

Did that price include the softeners? Or install only?

 

[Overachiever]

Install only. I already purchased the softener.

 

[soonermajic]

OMG! Get a certified plumber, or your distributor....or somebody who is a fix it man maybe?

 

[Overachiever]

Everyone I call either won't answer the phone, or shows up and craps there pants when they see the size of the existing softeners. I feel like I've tried calling everyone in town and have only received a single quote so far.

I was thinking install would be around $2500 based on a quote I got from a water softener guy earlier this year. But when he found out I didn't get the softener through him he refused to do the work. I didn't think he was going to size the softener properly based on his sales pitch and showing me some random pamphlet of a softener that says it works with car washes.

 

[soonermajic]

it'll take years to get that money back. Be patient, you'll figure out someone who can do it for FAR less

 

[pgrzes]

I did my own in a half a day by myself. My sweats might not look like a cert. plumber, but no leaks and prob. cost me less then $500 in copper and valves. I put my High Velocity solution pump and my spot free unit on soft water and my rinse tank on tap water. I also put in bypass's if there is a problem I can switch everything onto tap water. If you are at all handy it shouldnt be too difficult, take your time and make sure you clean the joints exceptionally well for a good sweat. Owning a carwash, its not a bad thing to learn how to do.

 

[soonermajic]

Hel, I'm thinking you could offer someone on here $1000/day & have 2 takers, & be out $3000 max!

 

[Jeff_L]

I agree with the others, that's way too high for the install. I did my own myself, 2" pipe, never sweated pipes before. Watched plenty of YouTube videos and slept at a Holiday Inn Express the night before I did it. It's not hard to sweat pipes, and I highly recommend watching videos as there are plenty of good ones. One trick I learned by watching is that you're not melting the solder with the flame, you heat up the joint and allow the solder to get sucked into it.

 

[Ric]

I saw a recent install in which the copper pipe was of a solder free connection. Appears to be crimped. View attachment 1034

 

[copperglobe]

I did as you described. Used a propress and fittings. Rented the press locally from a rental place. Purchased the fittings and valves on ebay over time, pipe at local plumbing store. Also installed a bypass so I can go back and forth between hard and soft as needed. Spent less than $500 for all material and my labor. Great results, no leaks. Using the Propress system is very fast and much, much easier than solder. In my wash I made all the pipe cuts, assembled the fittings, used the propress and was done quickly. Water was turned off for about 30 minutes max.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Your install quote is a joke. Do not attempt to sweat pipes if your’re not proficient at it, especially 2”. You won’t know if you have any leaks until you pressurize the system and you most likely will. Trying to fix a bad connection that you can’t get all of the water out of is where experience comes in. Do like Copperglobe suggested and use pro-press fittings. You can rent the press, the fittings are only slightly more expensive and it’s pretty easy to do and hard to mess up. You’ll have enough money left over afterwards to take a vacation.

 

[Overachiever]

Alright, I'll man up and do it myself. I've sweated a couple pipes but yeah, definitely not skilled in the art.

Here's the existing softener. Can I get by with reusing the plumbing above it for the bypass despite it being 2" and the new softener being 1.25" or will that be bad?

 

[Jeff_L]

Wow, someone had some fun with PVC piping didn't they? I've never seen supply lines installed with PVC, not sure that's code? I'd wipe that all out and do it in copper, either by sweating or propress as copper globe says. I haven't used propress, fittings are pricey, but labor time is much shorter than sweating. I've always had plenty of gas and solder around, so I tend to use up what I have first. My next big plumbing project will most likely be done with propress...maybe.

Looking at your photo again, it appears the output side of both your softeners have their valves off? And what appears to be the bypass is also off? Are you getting water to your wash?

 

[Overachiever]

Looking at your photo again, it appears the output side of both your softeners have their valves off? And what appears to be the bypass is also off? Are you getting water to your wash?

I have no idea if it's code.. none of the plumbers I've had come look have said anything about it. Theirs copper pipes zigzagging all over the place in there, not sure why the previous owner decided to break the pattern and go PVC in this case.

I'm getting water, just not any soft water at the moment. The white lever at the top is the bypass.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Overachiever, another option would be to keep all of that pvc and just adapt it. If it’s Schedule 80, which it looks to be, there’s no need to scrap it. We’ve done plenty of water system plumbing out of it. If the new tanks will fit in the same space and the inlets and outlets will line up just adapt and reduce the connections. Those ball valves to the tanks are true unions so you could just undo the softener side and replumb with 1.5”. This would be the least expensive route yet.

 

[MEP001]

That plumbing is a mess and overcomplicated, plus it isn't properly supported. It would work to adapt the new softener to it but I'd remove it completely and start over.

Since the PVC is between two threaded copper fittings, you could cut out all the PVC, run a new PVC pipe straight from the inlet to the outlet and stub out two ball valves for the softener with one between for the bypass and one extra outlet before the softener for the hard rinse to the auto. You'd be up and running in an hour while you finish plumbing the softener. All that would be left would be the hard water line to the auto.

 

[Ric]

I wouldn't be afraid of using schedule 80 pvc for that application. Just give it proper support.

 

[Greg Pack]

Schedule 80 PVC is awesome stuff. Expensive, but awesome. Good on the installer using unions.

Generally, the larger the pipe, the better. It will minimize any pressure losses. It is best to go from bigger to smaller, but I wouldn't worry too much about it if you size up again. You could neck down the stuff and put the other softeners in here. Just come into the main line before all this and tee off to supply the high pressure rinse to the autos. I did mine with short runs of 1" PEX to each unit. Everything else will be soft in the wash except the high pressure rinse. Your salt usage will drop 75% and it will be easy and you can do it in a couple of hours

 

[mac]

We replace softeners all the time. Most plumbing in FL is pvc which makes it a lot easier. Usually only takes 2 to 3 hours. I now use soft water for chemical mixing and spot free only. You can downsize a lot by doing that. Getting rid of large tanks is the hardest part. The tanks are usually filled 2/3 to 3/4 with resin. Drill a big hole there to drain the water out, then cut the top part of the tank off to remove the resin and water.