Need to talk to a Coleman Tech willing to pay for your time!!!

[RealScott]

I give! I need to call in help. No techs in my area are able to diagnose this issue.

Problem:

4 bay super saver when on rinse is backing up into the Presoak tank and on busy days over flowing it. when I took over the wash the PS was not functioning, I replaced the distribution manifold with a KIP block and not the 3 wire CFA style that was on it. it functions fine now its just getting diluted.

I thought perhaps the cold water regulator going into the rinse water supply manifold was going bad and the pressure was fluctuating too much, I have replaced this and turned it down to 20psi but my PS problem still exists but it may be slightly better.

The problem is not a bad check valve.

What is the cold water pressure suppose to be set at?

Anybody know what the issue is here or a good Coleman tech I can call? The factory tech support is terrible and wont return phone calls. Been trying for well over a month now.


Thanks!

 

[chaz]

Had a similar issue with my RO system. Treated water tank was being contaminated (and overflowing) by the system “prime” Line resulting in poor quality RO. In my case, after tons of trouble shooting and switching out check valves, etc .....I discovered the issue was a small in line water valve. This particular valve is ONLY used for system priming, in all other cases the valve should be closed. I had accidentally opened the valve (assuming it should be) during some maintenance. Good luck let us know what you figure out,
.

 

[Greg Pack]

IIRC, Cold water is supposed to be at about 20psi. It doesn't have to be high, just high enough to overcome gravity pressure from the hot water tank, which is only a few PSI.

Have you checked meter wiring? Is the PS solenoid opening on these other functions?

 

[sparkey]

I give! I need to call in help. No techs in my area are able to diagnose this issue.

Problem:

4 bay super saver when on rinse is backing up into the Presoak tank and on busy days over flowing it. when I took over the wash the PS was not functioning, I replaced the distribution manifold with a KIP block and not the 3 wire CFA style that was on it. it functions fine now its just getting diluted.

I thought perhaps the cold water regulator going into the rinse water supply manifold was going bad and the pressure was fluctuating too much, I have replaced this and turned it down to 20psi but my PS problem still exists but it may be slightly better.

The problem is not a bad check valve.

What is the cold water pressure suppose to be set at?

Anybody know what the issue is here or a good Coleman tech I can call? The factory tech support is terrible and wont return phone calls. Been trying for well over a month now.


Thanks!

I gave up on that company a long time ago. Your right. They never call back and you cant get a hold of anyone.

 

[RealScott]

IIRC, Cold water is supposed to be at about 20psi. It doesn't have to be high, just high enough to overcome gravity pressure from the hot water tank, which is only a few PSI.

Have you checked meter wiring? Is the PS solenoid opening on these other functions?

I'll turn it down more tomorrow, it's at like 25 right now. Am I correct in my thinking that even if it dropped to zero PSI it wouldn't cavitate the pump, it would just pull hot water from the tank above?

sort of related question... How do I tell if the check valves below the hot water tank are going bad?

I did check to make sure the PS solenoids were not kicking on and they are not.

 

[RealScott]

I gave up on that company a long time ago. Your right. They never call back and you cant get a hold of anyone.

Almost 5 years in now and I'm still shocked how some of these companies stay in business. The bar for customer service seems to be on the floor in this industry. At least in the SS/IBA segment I'm in.

 

[Greg Pack]

I'll turn it down more tomorrow, it's at like 25 right now. Am I correct in my thinking that even if it dropped to zero PSI it wouldn't cavitate the pump, it would just pull hot water from the tank above?

sort of related question... How do I tell if the check valves below the hot water tank are going bad?

I did check to make sure the PS solenoids were not kicking on and they are not.

Yes, I think gravity feed from hot water tank will just take over if rinse supply pressure is super low.

I would take the line off the supply side of the presoak manifold and see if you can narrow it down to a specific bay that is causing a problem. Do you have any bays cavitating on high pressure?

 

[RealScott]

no cavitation issues.

The supply poly going from the PS manifold into the HP lines are clear and the PS fluid is bright purple so I can see which bays are backing up. Thing is, it's completely random. I think... if miltiple bays are on, water pressure drops enough and it's not doing it???

Is there any way actual pressure from the pumps could flow backwards in any scenario?

 

[Greg Pack]

no cavitation issues.

The supply poly going from the PS manifold into the HP lines are clear and the PS fluid is bright purple so I can see which bays are backing up. Thing is, it's completely random. I think... if miltiple bays are on, water pressure drops enough and it's not doing it???

Is there any way actual pressure from the pumps could flow backwards in any scenario?

Not that I'm aware of. If you're certain that the presoak solenoids are not being energized with any voltage at all I would continue to reduce rinse line pressure. but you should be having the same problem with your soap and wax solenoids. I'm assuming your presoak tank is on the pumpstand and not wall mounted.

 

[MEP001]

The problem is not a bad check valve.

Is there a separate pump for the presoak and lines out to the bays from the solenoids? If so, it's most likely one or more check valves.

sort of related question... How do I tell if the check valves below the hot water tank are going bad?

The easiest way is to run each pump long enough for the check valve to get hot, then turn it to rinse. If the check valve gets cold, it's bad.

 

[RealScott]

but you should be having the same problem with your soap and wax solenoids. I'm assuming your presoak tank is on the pumpstand and not wall mounted.

Yep it's all original Coleman layout except I took out the concentration tank and just run pails. No wall mounted tanks. I'm only having the issue with the PS that I can tell. if the others are having the issue it's very minimal. Here's the thing about that.... I replaced the PS manifold block with a KIP metering manifold not the CFA ones. So I'm guessing the Kip just cant hold the back pressure as well as the others? I'm ordering another CFA manifold to see if that fixes it. Maybe I used the wrong part???

 

[RealScott]

Is there a separate pump for the presoak and lines out to the bays from the solenoids? If so, it's most likely one or more check valves.

Nope it's all gravity/suction into the HP line. no separate pump and no check vales. I thought about just adding some inline poly checks but I don't think the HP pumps pull hard enough to crack them.


The easiest way is to run each pump long enough for the check valve to get hot, then turn it to rinse. If the check valve gets cold, it's bad.

Thank you!

 

[Greg Pack]

Is there a separate pump for the presoak and lines out to the bays from the solenoids? If so, it's most likely one or more check valves.

Well I have been assuming that he has standard medium pressure presoak. Coleman uses a medium pressure presoak that is plumbed like HP soap or wax would be, with presoak feed line teed into the suction side of the pump.

 

[MEP001]

Well I have been assuming that he has standard medium pressure presoak. Coleman uses a medium pressure presoak that is plumbed like HP soap or wax would be, with presoak feed line teed into the suction side of the pump.

That's what I wasn't sure of, I've seen that style but I've never looked into how it's supplied with presoak. Using the wash it looked like the presoak was just lower pressure high-pressure soap, but the guy might have been using the same chemical for both. Every other one I've seen has a separate presoak pump.

RealScott, one idea that might be simpler than changing the solenoid block again would be to re-route the presoak line to the same point where soap and wax tee in before the 3/4" check valve. You could test it by using a tubing tee and splice it into the soap line.

 

[RealScott]

You assume correctly Greg. Medium pressure presoak teed into same place as soap & wax.

 

[RealScott]

If I'm understanding you correctly Mep001, that is how it's currently plumbed, same place as the wax and soap.

 

[Greg Pack]

Well, You mentioned earlier that the presoak was not functioning but you didn't mention what was wrong and what you did to fix it.

To summarize the only things I can think of that could cause such as problem is this:

1)Debris (or presoak powder)in the presoak tank getting into the solenoid plungers holding them open. Is the filter screen in place?

2)Pressure on rinse line too high, causing the problem- replace pressure gauge and turn pressure down as much as possible, but that doesn't explain why you don't have the same problem with soap or wax which is plumbed the same way.

3)Wiring on rinse setting energizing or partially energizing the presoak manifold. If someone rewired a rotary switch incorrectly this would be the result. That would be evident because when you had bay three on rinse, you would see the water flow in through the #3 solenoid. I would check for zero voltage on the presoak terminals with voltmeter to rule this out.

If all dead ends you could probably stop this with a check valve with super low cracking pressure on the line between the presoak tank and manifold, but you're not fixing the source of the problem.

 

[MEP001]

I would think that the 3/4" check valve would already eliminate any backflow into the tank. The rinse is on the other side of the check valve, so the pressure of the rinse supply shouldn't have any effect. Solenoids coming on when they shouldn't be should also not affect anything unless the presoak tank is lower than the soap or wax, one of those could be backing up into the presoak since there's no check valve between them.

 

[txheat]

I would think that the 3/4" check valve would already eliminate any backflow into the tank. The rinse is on the other side of the check valve, so the pressure of the rinse supply shouldn't have any effect. Solenoids coming on when they shouldn't be should also not affect anything unless the presoak tank is lower than the soap or wax, one of those could be backing up into the presoak since there's no check valve between them.

Logically it seem the manifold he changed out may not be correct... wait to see when he replace the "kip" back to the original manifold with cfa coils.

 

[MEP001]

Logically it seem the manifold he changed out may not be correct... wait to see when he replace the "kip" back to the original manifold with cfa coils.

It shouldn't matter. They work exactly the same way, just slightly different design. I'm also pretty certain that the KIP solenoids have a higher resistance to backflow, so they should work better against backflow. This whole issue could also be caused by a piece of debris caught in a solenoid, regardless of which one.