Fluctuating Conveyor Speed and Timing Issues

[jfmoran]

Have an ongoing issue at a wash I operate: Sonny's 130ft conveyor with a dedicated power pack for the conveyor with ICS WBC controller and ICS external pulse switch. When conveyor starts in the morning the WBC will read one speed and the equipment timing will be 6-12 inches late on, late off. As we begin to run volume, usually within the first hour, the conveyor speed (per the WBC controller, will increase in speed twice), timing of equipment then moves from late on-late off to 18-24 inches early on-early off and then stay there for the rest of the day. Conveyor power pack is in a climate controlled room, tunnel is heated as well. ICS wants to blame hydraulic fluid viscosity, however, this problem started in October, well before cold temperatures and when the problem initially started, the WBC would show a faster speed at start up and drop to a slower speed. Timing would go from 18-24 in early on-early off to about dead on, when it "slowed".

We experienced a similar problem when we first opened in Jan last year, that took several months to fix. Turned out to be a software problem related to our e-stops. Every time e-stop was pressed, WBC would read pulses wrong and timing for all cars in tunnel would be off until cue was cleared. That problem was solved, but this new one started in Oct of last year and has us back and forth with ICS almost daily trying to fix the issue.

Anybody out there ever experienced anything like this? By the way we operate 3 other tunnels with Sonnys and ICS and do not have this problem at any of them.

 

[Waxman]

if the problem is similar to a year or so ago, my logic would be to go back to the solution you had found and re-try that. is that what you did?

was there any hardware you also changed or just software? is e-stop emergency stop switch? if the equipment loses track of timing etc. after an e-stop is activated, start there in your troubleshooting.

good luck!

 

[robert roman]

Conveyor starts, timing goes “late on, late off.” Here, oil is at one temperature.

At volume, conveyor increases in speed twice. Here, after one hour, oil is at much greater temperature. Timing goes “late on-late off” to “early on-early off” and then stays there for remainder.

Computers don’t make mistakes, people do.

Since similar problem was programming error, and if nothing has changed in terms of programming or a new hardware issue since then, I would also suspect fluid dynamics may be problem.

Climate controlled room doesn’t necessarily rule out problems with hydraulic fluid viscosity because at volume hydraulic fluid gets more than warm.

Is oil proper type and viscosity? When was it changed last?

 

[Washmee]

What type of pulse switch do you have ? I don't use ICS but would assume that the pulse reader in the software compensates for variable chain speed. On my DRB system I set a parameter for how many inches the chain travels per pulse. Using that parameter the software calculates when to turn devices on and off . I also have the ability to use a simulated pulse if something is wrong with the mechanical pulse switch . If the conveyor speed is changed while using the simulated pulse option it throws the timing off. Is it possible that you have the same option on your controller and somehow you have accidently engaged the simulated pulse?

 

[PA CW Tech]

Where is the pump with the pulse prox plumbed in line? This sounds like an issue I fixed 2 years ago. Someone put it after the conveyor pump on the return line instead of inline before the conveyor. Had another site that had the pulse switch wiring routed through the dryer control and it turbocharged the timing when the dryers kicked on.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Once had an electrician tell me nothing is as accurate as having the pulse switch at the sprocket. Then I found out why. At one place the Pulse switch motor is after the conveyor. At certain speeds and loads the conveyor motor may bypass some oil and the remote Pulse switch motor won't and this makes stuff come on and go off too early.

 

[hkim310]

I am having a similar issue with my ICS TMJ and the timing of outputs. When we send 1 car through the tunnel, all outputs fire at the correct time. When we are busy and send cars back to back, starting about 50% of the way down the tunnel, outputs begin to fire too early and turn off too soon. JFMORAN, did you ever resolve the issue you had?

 

[jfmoran]

To fix the problem, we had to replace our external ICS pulse switch, with an old school pulse switch installed on the sprocket in the pit.



QUOTE=hkim310;117324]I am having a similar issue with my ICS TMJ and the timing of outputs. When we send 1 car through the tunnel, all outputs fire at the correct time. When we are busy and send cars back to back, starting about 50% of the way down the tunnel, outputs begin to fire too early and turn off too soon. JFMORAN, did you ever resolve the issue you had?[/QUOTE]

 

[JustaGuy]

Call me old-school, but I have never believed that a hydraulic pulse can be as accurate and repeatable as a traditional pulse on the sprocket. I would be inclined to replace the ICS external pulse with a pulse on the sprocket and re-measure the pulse. If that doesn't correct the problem, then if nothing else you've eliminated the pulse system as the source of the problem and need to go back to ICS with that information.

 

[jfmoran]

What we were told, was that over 120ft on the conveyor, their pulse switch loses it’s accuracy. The only fix was replacing the pulse switch and that was after months of troubleshooting, including replacing the ICS pulse switch, replumbing the hydraulic flow through the pulse switch, adjusting the bypass, etc...

Call me old-school, but I have never believed that a hydraulic pulse can be as accurate and repeatable as a traditional pulse on the sprocket. I would be inclined to replace the ICS external pulse with a pulse on the sprocket and re-measure the pulse. If that doesn't correct the problem, then if nothing else you've eliminated the pulse system as the source of the problem and need to go back to ICS with that information.