Sputtering Blowing Air out of Tire/Wheel Self Serve Low Pressure?

[cityview]

This one feels like it should be "obvious", which is why I'm extra confused.

Before I started changing things, I had it set at 40 PSI liquid, 30 PSI air. All of my bays started having issues with the Tire/Wheel, Where the guns would sputter when using Tire/Wheel. (no issues with the other low pressure systems).

I thought the issue could be my pump, so I replaced the pump. Then I thought it was the pressure gauges, so I replaced both the regulators and the gauges. Then I thought it might be check valves, so I replaced the check valves. Lastly I figured maybe it was the solenoids, so I rebuilt the solenoids.

These systems aren't that complicated... and at this point I replaced everything. None of these helped. If I turn OFF the air pressure completely, I do get liquid only working fine, although I also get water coming back to the air lines and out the relief holes. The minute I turn some air on, even if its only about 20 PSI, then I get sputtering/blowing air out of the guns on all the bays.

Anyone have any other ideas that I could be missing?

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[MEP001]

Try setting the liquid pressure to at least 40 PSI. You may just have it set too low.

 

[cityview]

It's at 40/30 now. I cracked it up to 50/20 and I still had the same problem, but then I also had fluid blowback out the pressure regulator vents for the air. 40/0 worked fine chemical wise.

I thought of adding another check valve on the air lines but in 27 years those location never had them.

Very perplexing to me.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Are you going by the white face gauges or the Black Face gauges? I hope it is not the white ones. Use the Black face ones for the settings and ignore the white face ones. (Sorry if "Black Face" is not PC

 

[MEP001]

It could also be a bad pump, I know you said it's new but it's acting like it would if air was leaking past the diaphragm, and any resistance from the air side is stopping the pump and letting more air through the rupture. Can you see liquid through the hose coming from the pump to the solenoids?

 

[Main Street Carwash]

This is going through the wand?

 

[Main Street Carwash]

The hoses to your Flojet look like they are clear. Is there chemical getting to the pump? Clogged strainer maybe?

 

[cityview]

Are you going by the white face gauges or the Black Face gauges? I hope it is not the white ones. Use the Black face ones for the settings and ignore the white face ones. (Sorry if "Black Face" is not PC

The black faced gauges are the new ones I just installed. The white faces are the old ones, so yes I'm going off the black ones!

no PC police here..

 

[cityview]

It could also be a bad pump, I know you said it's new but it's acting like it would if air was leaking past the diaphragm, and any resistance from the air side is stopping the pump and letting more air through the rupture. Can you see liquid through the hose coming from the pump to the solenoids?

If I turn the air line off, fluid comes through just fine- no air in the lines or problems, so while a good idea, if air was leaking past the diaphragms, then I'd get air in the line when I was running the flojets only!

 

[cityview]

This is going through the wand?

Yes. With the air line off and the liquid only, I get liquid only through the wand just fine. The minute I put even a little bit of air through (20PSI air + 40 PSI liquid, or 30+40), I get the awful sputtering and very little liquid through. This is true on ALL BAYS, not just one. All other low pressure lines are working fine on all bays.

The hoses to your Flojet look like they are clear. Is there chemical getting to the pump? Clogged strainer maybe?

Chemical only is working fine. The only issue is when I turn on the air lines.



The only thing else I can think of is to put a check valve in the air lines and then dial down the air to like 5-10 PSI. That seems "incorrect" though because no one else does that, so something else has to be happening. One thing I didn't think about though is if it has something to do with those 2000 PSI Check valves. It probably takes a good amount of pressure to open those, but most are about 5-10 PSI so 40/30 should be plenty, and my other chemicals are 40/30...

But this is the only one that mixes BEFORE the check valve. However, its done that for 27 years...

 

[OurTown]

Are you using some type of clear tire cleaner?

 

[cityview]

Are you using some type of clear tire cleaner?

Its green... Yes it looks very clear in that picture, but it is highlighter green and you can see it as green in person.

 

[JGinther]

I think your problem is that the soap has no soap! You have to have surfactant in the mix to get the air to make the bubbles you are looking for. So... Foot valve, Hydrominder diaphragm, something stuck in the eductor, inlet water pressure too low, bad ball valve, you didn't pay your water bill, your soap supplier gave himself a raise... a million reasons... But put some soap in the tank and see if the problem goes away....

 

[Earl Weiss]

The black faced gauges are the new ones I just installed. The white faces are the old ones, so yes I'm going off the black ones!

no PC police here..

I would star with 40PSI for the flo jet and 10 PSI for the air. You do not need much air for foaming. Increase air 5 PSI at a time from there.

 

[pgrzes]

I am sure you have done this allready, but I usually turn everything to 0. I adjust the pump to the flow rate I am looking for with all bays running then adjust the air to the consistency I want. I have given up on trying to rely on the gauges we get anymore. Good luck with it.

 

[cityview]

I would star with 40PSI for the flo jet and 10 PSI for the air. You do not need much air for foaming. Increase air 5 PSI at a time from there.

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll need to either add check valves on the air line or replace the air regulator with a non-relieving one. Any more than 10 PSI difference and I get product out the relieving regulator.

Has anyone tried those cheap plastic in line check valves for air lines? I can't find a pressure rating on them, but they are like $2 so I might give them a try... I also have non relieving regulators I can swap in there, that just didn't seem like the "right" way to do it.

I am sure you have done this allready, but I usually turn everything to 0. I adjust the pump to the flow rate I am looking for with all bays running then adjust the air to the consistency I want. I have given up on trying to rely on the gauges we get anymore. Good luck with it.

Thanks. That worked fine around 40/10 like Earl Weiss mentioned, but then I get product out the relief holes on the regulators.

If running 40/10 or 30/10 seems reasonable to you guys, then I'll add check valves/non relieving regulators tomorrow morning and see if that does it. I was running 40/30 with the old set up and I checked with my friend who has a car wash in Cincinnati, and his was around 40/30 also, so I thought 40/10 seemed off.

 

[cityview]

I think your problem is that the soap has no soap! You have to have surfactant in the mix to get the air to make the bubbles you are looking for. So... Foot valve, Hydrominder diaphragm, something stuck in the eductor, inlet water pressure too low, bad ball valve, you didn't pay your water bill, your soap supplier gave himself a raise... a million reasons... But put some soap in the tank and see if the problem goes away....

Thanks for the thoughts.

There is product in there, but the picture I showed was from when I put in the new lines, and you cant see the product... . I was using it to show the setup, but I appreciate your insight. The lines do look green now


I think I'll get it done with the check valve/non relieving regulator. Thanks a lot!

 

[JGinther]

Green is a color, but not a surfactant. I'm telling you, the whole problem could be the soap mix. I have seen many a bad pail in the past. Chem manufacturers screw up too...

Assuming 40 psi is 40 psi (as in your guages aren't lying to you) you should be able to adjust up the foaming air to 10 or 15 psi less than the product pressure. If it's sputtering, you either have a chemical problem (as mentioned above) or you need a foam generator.

 

[cityview]

Green is a color, but not a surfactant. I'm telling you, the whole problem could be the soap mix. I have seen many a bad pail in the past. Chem manufacturers screw up too...

Assuming 40 psi is 40 psi (as in your guages aren't lying to you) you should be able to adjust up the foaming air to 10 or 15 psi less than the product pressure. If it's sputtering, you either have a chemical problem (as mentioned above) or you need a foam generator.

I didn't think about that. Coincidently I noticed this all happened immediately after I put in new bucket of soap...

I didn't think it could be related, but now you have me thinking...

 

[MEP001]

If I turn the air line off, fluid comes through just fine- no air in the lines or problems, so while a good idea, if air was leaking past the diaphragms, then I'd get air in the line when I was running the flojets only!

No you won't, that's why I asked if you can see fluid through the hose from the pump to the solenoid. When this was happening there was no air in the hose with the air regulator off. Any air pressure and flow would almost completely stop.

[video=youtube;GNcPyZTqNmQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNcPyZTqNmQ[/video]

But I don't think this is the case with yours. If you don't hear the pump pulses slow down drastically when you give it some air, it's probably a lack of foam ability of your product as others mentioned.