Airlift Door doesn't open trapping people inside?

[cityview]

My airlift door is 2 years old, and sometimes it doesn't open.

When it fails to open, I just go inside and hit the manual "Stop" then "Up" button, it opens, and then life is good for a few days until someone gets stuck again.

When it is 'stuck' down, using the controls on the automatic to open it does not work. I can try to send the command multiple times to no avail. I have to actually go to the "stop" and "Up" buttons on the door itself. However, once I do that once its good for a while working on the automatic.

I can send the door up and down 20 times manually and it works flawlessly every time.

First time it happened, I thought it was a fluke.

2nd time it happened, I was getting worried.

Third time it happened and I realized I need to do something about it.

Anyone have any ideas how to diagnose this?

I would be scared to death if I got stuck inside an automatic car wash, and I have a lot of elderly clients. I don't know what they'd do if they got stuck.

 

[Sparkleclean]

Caution, lots of states have anti entrapment laws, meaning you cant have a situation where a customer can become trapped in a building. There has to be a way out. What would happen if the doors didnt open and they didnt have a cell phone to call for help. I worry about that with our automatic touchless bays too.

 

[JGinther]

Start with replacing your stop button.

 

[cityview]

Start with replacing your stop button.

The stop button is what "fixes" it, almost like its in an endless "down" loop... which suggests to me it could be some relay, but I don't see any relays!

 

[cityview]

You can just push the doors open if you had to... since they can easily be pushed open, I think they are technically not a worry, but its more of the freakout factor. Customers don't realize they can walk through or drive through a door thats down.

 

[JGinther]

Stop circuits are supposed to be wired normally closed. If pushing the button fixes it, there is a very very high probability your stop button is the problem. Pushing the stop button itself shouldn't fix anything. Since it does, you are obviously making contact again after releasing the stop button. When the stop button makes contact, then the rest of the door operations are enabled.

 

[cityview]

Stop circuits are supposed to be wired normally closed. If pushing the button fixes it, there is a very very high probability your stop button is the problem. Pushing the stop button itself shouldn't fix anything. Since it does, you are obviously making contact again after releasing the stop button. When the stop button makes contact, then the rest of the door operations are enabled.

I can accept that logic but the manual controls do not seem to function when in automatic mode. I believe the stop button is bypassed. If that is the case, then the stop button can't actually be causing the issue in the first place?

I'll test it tonight to see if I can override the auto with it, but I have to switch the switch from auto to manual to use the controls.

 

[dukeofsuds]

I think you are having good replies on the electrics, but just a thought. I have had a lot of similar problems with the garage door.

We had similar things where the testing couldn't reproduce the problem, but the real life actual usage was a problem where the door wouldn't open. Turns out we had a problem with water getting into the exit door wiring from our IBA. Our testing was not a real wash. That might have something to do with your results, not sure.

The previous owner to me locked people inside, creating a bad stigma in my area. The reality wasn't a lawsuit, it was a) police breaking the panels on the door and b)the car wash getting a bad rep. The previous owner didn't have an emergency button. After buying it, one thing we did was wired an extra open button (using a doorbell no less) on the side of the bay for the customer to press. Also, since that was "dry" wiring with a different route to the opener and not tied to the machine, it worked fine while we were still trying to figure it out.

 

[cityview]

I think you are having good replies on the electrics, but just a thought. I have had a lot of similar problems with the garage door.

We had similar things where the testing couldn't reproduce the problem, but the real life actual usage was a problem where the door wouldn't open. Turns out we had a problem with water getting into the exit door wiring from our IBA. Our testing was not a real wash. That might have something to do with your results, not sure.

The previous owner to me locked people inside, creating a bad stigma in my area. The reality wasn't a lawsuit, it was a) police breaking the panels on the door and b)the car wash getting a bad rep. The previous owner didn't have an emergency button. After buying it, one thing we did was wired an extra open button (using a doorbell no less) on the side of the bay for the customer to press. Also, since that was "dry" wiring with a different route to the opener and not tied to the machine, it worked fine while we were still trying to figure it out.

Not a bad idea... I think I might do that.

My garage door came with an emergency exit kit, but I'm not exaggerating- I have no instructions and its about 100 pieces. I don't know how or why there would be something this complicated, but 2 1/2 years later and I'm still waiting for the installers to finish installing it....

 

[dukeofsuds]

Not a bad idea... I think I might do that.

My garage door came with an emergency exit kit, but I'm not exaggerating- I have no instructions and its about 100 pieces. I don't know how or why there would be something this complicated, but 2 1/2 years later and I'm still waiting for the installers to finish installing it....

My garage doors are 25 years old and if it came with one it's long gone!

For what it's worth, the "doorbell" was painted red, and we put an "emergency exit" sign on it. It's wired to the open button on the garage door controller. (We didn't put a switch, because we didn't want them to play with it otherwise, plus it was easier to keep it waterproof. So obviously, they can't close it). The temp sensor eventually closes the door but we ask them to call us so we know we have a problem.

 

[JGinther]

What kind of auto is it?

 

[dukeofsuds]

What kind of auto is it?

Coleman Water Wizard 2.0

 

[cityview]

What kind of auto is it?

Washworld Razor

 

[JGinther]

Washworld Razor

Ok, that makes me think its the stop button also then... I can't imagine why anyone would make the door buttons not work. That would be crazy as then people, in the event of a problem, wouldn't be able to get out of the bay unless someone switched the controls to manual mode. I also don't believe Razors include a door stop button control on the Allen Bradley controller... So there is probably only one stop circuit - the one on the manual buttons. Are your airlift doors electric or air?

 

[cityview]

Ok, that makes me think its the stop button also then... I can't imagine why anyone would make the door buttons not work. That would be crazy as then people, in the event of a problem, wouldn't be able to get out of the bay unless someone switched the controls to manual mode. I also don't believe Razors include a door stop button control on the Allen Bradley controller... So there is probably only one stop circuit - the one on the manual buttons. Are your airlift doors electric or air?

Electric

I inspected the buttons. Looks can be deceiving, but it looks like there's no way the contacts getting broken. I wonder if it's with the controller.

I wish I could replicate it. I washed my own car like ten times yesterday trying to get it to fail and I couldn't.

 

[JGinther]

You can't tell by looking at it. The contact block makes contact internally. If you don't see funny results from an ohmmeter, I would wire around the stop button for a while.

 

[soapy]

On problems like this I always start by replacing the control button. I have door buttons on the inside of each auto bay. A few years ago I got a call.from the police at 1 am that someone was trapped in one of my auto bays. I told them that there were door control buttons for each door in the bay. They related the message then replied back to me that the person stuck was a midget and could not reach the buttons.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Am I a bad person for initially laughing at soapy’s last post?

 

[JGinther]

No. Soapy was obviously talking about vertically challenged cars. Theres a whole forum for asking questions like the one above: https://www.mgexp.com/phorum/
What else could he and you be referring to?

You're welcome Soapy.

 

[cityview]

You can't tell by looking at it. The contact block makes contact internally. If you don't see funny results from an ohmmeter, I would wire around the stop button for a while.

You can see the contacts via the back of the switch on mine pretty clearly. The back of the switch is fully open.


I can run a wire around it for a bit.

I also really like the emergency exit-button idea. I was thinking of buying something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/240V-Normall...269&sr=1-1&keywords=normally+open+stop+button

With a giant sign that says "EMERGENCY EXIT"

And I'll put it low enough for Soapy's friends driving MG Midgets.