Vacuum Motor "Upgrade" for strongest suck

[dukeofsuds]

Hi Folks,

I bought a car wash about a little over a year ago. This has been a great resource as I ramp up in knowledge.

The previous owner had been using VMK19 vacuums, and I just kept buying the same.

Vacuums are one of my key differentiators and I want to upgrade them. The vac base is old, they are JE 8200's. Rather than going with the cheapest vac, I'd like to upgrade the vac motors to the best performing (read: strongest) motors I can put in. I keep reading these forums about vacs, and most posts are about longest-lasting vacuums, but I'm after the strongest that I can put in.

I have 20 amp service to each vacuum.

What's the best motor that would likely fit into that machine. Is it something like the Lamb-Ametek 122445-00 It seems to have 162 CFM, while the VMK19 has 101. Are CFM's the right way to judge? Is there anything higher that would keep the amperage to 20?

That would surely be an upgrade if it fits. It looks the same size, but it has a weird trumpet looking thing on the side, which my VMK19's do not. What is the "trumpet" for? Is that some sort of exhaust?

If strong was your #1 priority followed by the most reliable/longest lasting, what model would you buy?

Thank you!

 

[chaz]

I use the Kleenrite VMK19 in my dual motor vacs. They work great. I just make sure the debris area is cleaned regularly, the filter bags shaken out and cleaned with a toilet brush and the screens under the motors cleaned...plus make sure door seals are good.

 

[mjwalsh]

dukeofsuds,

We pride ourselves on swapping & washing our filter bags in our front load washing machines & keeping the sealing good against the base area of the VMK19 style of vacuum motors along with catching plugs as they happen. Plus we try to keep our time & bonus time better than our local competition. That is one way. We had a 3rd motor in a vacuum but there were only 3 bags whereas our current stainless steel vacuums have 4 bags. Some will differ on this statement based on their experience .... but we did not find enough gain of suction with the 3rd motor.

I did not know that the Lamb-Ametek 122445-00 style of vacuum would interchange with the VMK19 style. I believe the Lamb-Ametek 122445-00 is designed for vacuums designed differently. I could be wrong ... it would be great if someone would be the guinea pig for the rest of us ... just to see if there is enough gain. There are suction meters: https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Vacuum-Cleaner-Suction-Gauge/dp/B008MM63EK to help test the end results.

Before we bought our current heavy duty SS Doyle Vacuums back in 1987 ... we had 2 coin op vacuums that had the Lamb-Ametek 122445-00 style but each vacuum had only one motor & we used 1.5 inch hoses. Not sure what would have happened with 2" hoses & using more than the 1 of that style of Lamb-Ametek 122445-00 style of motor???

 

[Randy]

You’d have to do some pretty extensive modifications to the vacuum if you use a Lamb-Ametek 122445-00 vac motor, KR #VAL2445. We also use a VMK19 motor, I believe they are made by Electrolux. A few years ago I was at one of the ICA conventions and I was talking to Mr. Smooth bore, he was the guy from smooth bore vac hose who was always at the conventions. He told me that you can only pull about 210 CFM’s up a 2” vac hose. I would just go with a VMK19 vac motor, keep the vacuum in good condition, filters cleaned regularly, good door seals and charge for your service. Most vacuums are underpriced.

 

[soapy]

My original vacs had a large spring built inside of the vac bag. When the vac would turn on the bag and spring would compress during the cycle. When the vac would shut off the spring would extend effectively shaking the bag each time it was used. This is my favorite kind of setup for ease of maintenance. Number 1 thing to do is make sure you have a good seal everywhere IMO.

 

[JGinther]

My original vacs had a large spring built inside of the vac bag. When the vac would turn on the bag and spring would compress during the cycle. When the vac would shut off the spring would extend effectively shaking the bag each time it was used. This is my favorite kind of setup for ease of maintenance. Number 1 thing to do is make sure you have a good seal everywhere IMO.

I had the opposite experience. The spring type was pressurized where the air was compressing the filter media instead of expanding it. The compression effect made the dust and dirt effectively close off the 'holes' in the filter when the newer designs expand the holes to keep the air flowing through the 'holes' in the filter. Have to clean the old JE Adams single chamber springs filters 10 times for each time a hanging filter bag has to be cleaned.

 

[MEP001]

I had the opposite experience. The spring type was pressurized where the air was compressing the filter media instead of expanding it. The compression effect made the dust and dirt effectively close off the 'holes' in the filter when the newer designs expand the holes to keep the air flowing through the 'holes' in the filter. Have to clean the old JE Adams single chamber springs filters 10 times for each time a hanging filter bag has to be cleaned.

My experience has been the same. I modified an old, used shop vac with a single spring filter. It worked great, for about 30 seconds, then the bag would begin to clog. I ended up putting a piece of PVC in the bag to keep it extended so I had the whole surface area of the bag to filter.

To OP: I prefer the Domel motors which I get from Windtrax. They're slightly more in both suction and airflow than any other vac motor that I actually found specs for, as well as a bit quieter. I've never done any real testing, but it does feel stronger, definitely not what you'll get with the side discharge motor. In case you were wondering, that is the type some use for their "turbo mode" vacuums. You could probably adapt it to a vac as long as there's room under the dome, I would think just by using some 1/4" threaded rod and drilling holes into the top of the vac, permanently attaching the rod to the top of the tank, then sliding the motor over the rod and tighening it down.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I use the Kleenrite VMK19 in my dual motor vacs. They work great. I just make sure the debris area is cleaned regularly, the filter bags shaken out and cleaned with a toilet brush and the screens under the motors cleaned...plus make sure door seals are good.

Same here. As long as all elements are well maintained suction is great.

 

[Main Street Carwash]

Those old JE 8200's are the single door with the spring bag style filters. They just plain suck(not in a good way). Its a terrible design and definitly not geared towards heavy use. I would pony up the funds for decent two door vacs with a better filter bag system unless you like cleaning those things out every other day. I just replaced some Adams 8200's at one location and revenue is up and complaints and maintenance is way down.

 

[soapy]

My vacs with the springs were made by Ryko and have worked well.

 

[dukeofsuds]

Thanks everyone for the info. I just assumed that the VAK19 motor being the least expensive one on KleenRite's website wasn't a very good one, when they sell so many others. Sounds like a lot of people are using it, and it works well. We will move on to updating something else that gets more bang for our buck!

Thanks!

 

[MEP001]

The brushes on the VMK19 don't last as long as Lamb or Ametek, but they're cheap and easy to replace. I recommend checking them with the gauge the brush kit comes with, since if you let it run until the brushes are gone it will usually damage the commutator and burn up new brushes very quickly or not work at all.

The VMK19 is a tiny bit taller than "standard" motors, so if your vac has a single hold-down system for two or three motors you may have to change them all at once.

 

[chaz]

I don’t mind telling you....vac brush replacement has never been on our radar. We test vacs daily and replace any bad motors with new. I know brushes are cheap...but in the scheme of things so are the motors and a lot less labor intensive than checking and replacing brushes ...Just my two cents.

 

[OurTown]

This is the one we are trying out. It is supposed to be a little quieter and a little more suction. You can tell the difference but it's not huge.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-2421-lamb-ametek-116757-00-2-stage-1-speed.aspx

 

[MEP001]

I don’t mind telling you....vac brush replacement has never been on our radar. We test vacs daily and replace any bad motors with new. I know brushes are cheap...but in the scheme of things so are the motors and a lot less labor intensive than checking and replacing brushes ...Just my two cents.

With the Domel motors I change all the brushes every year. I haven't had a motor fail yet, and it takes me about an hour to do 11 vacs. I don't check and change only when they're worn, I determined how long they last by checking which I only had to do once..

 

[MEP001]

This is the one we are trying out. It is supposed to be a little quieter and a little more suction. You can tell the difference but it's not huge.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-2421-lamb-ametek-116757-00-2-stage-1-speed.aspx

Those are good motors, I've just had terrible luck getting the brush out without breaking off the wire to the commutator. They last at least four times longer than the VMK19, so well worth the extra cost.

 

[OurTown]

Those are good motors, I've just had terrible luck getting the brush out without breaking off the wire to the commutator. They last at least four times longer than the VMK19, so well worth the extra cost.

If that is the case about how long they last then they are much cheaper per hour since they are not even twice as expensive.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Or if your motors look like mine did in the photos I posted a while back replacing the brushes would have been pointless. They get so corroded the brush failure is just the first of a long list of things that can wear out.

 

[semocarwasher]

I once had a customer who bought 4 brand new 3 motor vacs to replace his 2 motor vacs. He called one day telling me had several complaints from people that the new ones had too much suction. Basically he said the nozzle had so much suction it was hard to move it over the carpet smoothly. Not sure if he ever did it, but he told me he was going to disconnect one. Like everyone else, we use the vmk19 and have used the domel as well. I never saw much difference.

 

[mjwalsh]

I once had a customer who bought 4 brand new 3 motor vacs to replace his 2 motor vacs. He called one day telling me had several complaints from people that the new ones had too much suction. Basically he said the nozzle had so much suction it was hard to move it over the carpet smoothly. Not sure if he ever did it, but he told me he was going to disconnect one. Like everyone else, we use the vmk19 and have used the domel as well. I never saw much difference.

On our 3 motor vac long ago, I had the carpet of an older vehicle unravel while vacuuming. I had volunteered to vacuum an older vehicle for a visiting uncle from Colorada Springs. Like Gomer Pyle would say .... Surprise .... Surprise ... Surprise!