Do you carry, what and why?

[MEP001]

I'm planning to buy a gun and I'm looking for something with decent stopping power but I want it fairly easy to conceal. If I were to just get what I wanted I'd buy a Desert Eagle and open carry but I don't want to make customers nervous or give any baddies a chance to prepare for me being armed. Any recommendations on something probably .38 or 9mm? I'm thinking at least 9 rounds because I don't plan on any Terminator 2 knee shots. I like the look of the Smith and Wesson M&P Shield, but I'm not familiar with guns at all and would like some advice before I throw money at something.

 

[OurTown]

9mm is a good choice because is is effective enough, there are endless guns and ammo choices, and has manageable recoil. I do not have one of these but the Sig P365 is what I would buy today. It is small, easy to carry and has large capacity for its size. The early models had issues but I think those are worked out now. Keep in mind that the smaller the gun the easier (and more comfortable) it is to carry but will be more difficult to shoot effectively. (more muzzle flip, short sight radius) Most of the small guns are made for real close up encounters so I think that is mostly a non issue. Rarely does a concealed carry holder need to make a long shot. I suggest going to a range and renting some guns to see what you like.

 

[Axxlrod]

The Shield is an excellent carry gun. That said, a cary gun is a very personal choice.

If you're not familiar with guns, they don't go down this route until you are familiar. Train, train, train and then train some more. Spend a lot of time at the range, and pay for some private lessons.

After you do all this, what gun you want to carry will be an easy choice.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Good advice above... especially the train train train part. (both physical and psychological.)

Over the decades I've taken a couple dozen friends/relatives thru the journey you are embarking on, and unfortunately it's never a quick short trip. If you're ever up in the PA area you can spend a weekend here & I'll throw some meat on the smoker and give you a 48 hour course.

If you really need a short answer, ie are looking for someone to tell you what to do, here's my answer: FIRST buy a good quality gun belt. Then get a 380 and a good leather pocket holster for summer. And then get a 9mm and a good iwb holster for the rest of the time. Which 9mm is a matter of personal preference. S&W Shield is a solid choice if it is comfortable for you. The one other brand that needs a comment is Glock - massively popular, but most people either love it or hate it, definitely try before you buy, and if you like them, good chance it will be your favorite.

Feel free to pm or call if you want to discuss any specific questions in more detail.

 

[OurTown]

You might want to consider taking the concealed carry class first. It might give you some insight on what to look for in a CC pistol. In Ohio there are some differences in the quality of the instructors and the classes in general. My dad teaches it and he lays out about 20 guns for his students to shoot or at least handle to see what they like. I'm sure you can find someone who does something similar in Texas.

 

[MEP001]

Thanks for the advice so far. There's an indoor range near me that I believe rents guns for trial and practice. I definitely plan on testing out a few, just thought I'd get some advice to help narrow things down a bit.

I'll definitely take the license to carry course, even though I don't need it on the wash property. From what I've heard, cops are more comfortable when you have a LTC.

 

[JustaGuy]

S&W M&P Shield is a solid carry gun (especially if you go with the newer 2.0 model), as is the Glock 43. Of all of the single-stack 9mm handguns out there, those two are at the top of my recommened list, followed by the Ruger LC9s and Springfield Armory XDs. The Shield and Glock are both very reliable and have great track records. Which one is best for you depends on many factors, but ultimately whichever shoots and handles best for you is the one to go with. (Chances are, if you have a lot of martial arts training, the Glock will point more naturally for you, otherwise the Shield will.) As you mentioned, rent them and put a few magazines worth of ammo through each one to help you decide.

Be forewarned, subcompact handguns are difficult to shoot well so if you don't have much experience shooting handguns, especially subcompacts, you'll need a lot of practice, and should seek professional training. Start with the carry class, and follow it up with a good defensive shooting course and possibly one-on-one training as well.

(For what its worth, I'm an NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, and teach concealed carry classes on the side.)

 

[MEP001]

I'm still leaning toward the M&P Shield based on just research and advice, but I'll definitely try both that and the Glock 43 before I purchase. The big advantages (on paper) I see over the Glock are:

Made in America vs. USA and Austria
Limited lifetime warranty vs 1 year
Stainless slide and barrel (I'll likely use an inside-the-belt holster for better conceal so it's going to get damp)
About $150 cheaper
Parts much cheaper and more available

 

[OurTown]

S&W has sold over 3 million Shields which makes it the most sold CC pistol on record. It can't be too bad I suppose. I would not worry too much about the Glock warranty. If it runs out of the box you probably won't ever break or wear it out. (the same is probably true for the Shield) Although not as bad stainless guns still rust because they are made of 400 series stainless tool steel and not 300 series austenitic stainless. There are a ton of other options out there these days and they keep getting better and better. Currently I'm carrying a Kahr PM9 because it is about the smallest 9mm out there and I can pocket carry it. The downside is that it is really hard to shoot because of the long trigger pull and the gun's light weight. So far pocket carry is the only way I can comfortably carry all the time no matter what kind of work I'm doing. I tried inside the waistband and even with a semi custom $100 holster it was not comfortable if I was doing anything but standing. Pocket carry has its downsides too but there can be a lot of different types of compromises when it comes to concealed carry. It can be a real journey getting the best setup that works for you but take your time and have fun with it.

 

[MEP001]

I've been reading/watching side-by-side reviews of the M&P Shield and the Glock 43 the last couple of days, and most say the same thing - comparing them spec for spec the S&W is better, but most of them still prefer handling the Glock.

I don't think I would pocket carry. I won't be carrying all the time, just on my wash property either while I'm handling money or if it's dark or when I'm there alone. When I'm handling money there are two of us there and we may eventually both open carry. I also have difficulty fishing stuff out of my pockets as it is, and something as big as a gun will definitely be a problem. I don't want to be caught off-guard.

 

[srr5008]

I have the regular M&P (not the shield) in a 40S&W caliber and I love it. I personally don't like the feel of a Glock in my hand. However, it's all personal preference. Very hard to shop for guns online. Best thing you can do is do some homework on a couple of models, then handle them side-by-side, if possible. Go with the one that feels the best in your hand.

I personally don't like pocket carrying. I exclusively use a in-waistband holster. Be prepared to have a drawer full of holsters that you won't use again - unless you get lucky, you have a tendency to "try" quite a few before finding the right one. Personally, I like Crossbreed brand holsters, if you are going IWB.

 

[srr5008]

I also have difficulty fishing stuff out of my pockets as it is, and something as big as a gun will definitely be a problem. I don't want to be caught off-guard.

 

[srr5008]

When I'm handling money there are two of us there and we may eventually both open carry. I also have difficulty fishing stuff out of my pockets as it is, and something as big as a gun will definitely be a problem. I don't want to be caught off-guard.

A couple thoughts... I would never OC, my own self. I think it makes you a target. (JMO)

Also, they make CC vests, which I wear sometimes in the winter so I don't have to deal with multiple layers of clothing if I need to grab a gun.

 

[MEP001]

A couple thoughts... I would never OC, my own self. I think it makes you a target. (JMO)

I agree for the most part, I don't want to become a target just for someone to steal my gun. Another operator used to own a wash a few miles up the same road mine is on, and his full time help had to stand behind him gun in hand while he pulled the safes because people walking on the sidewalk would turn and walk toward him when they saw him dumping the quarters. I'm a good bit farther from the road and haven't had any issues at all so far and may not worry about it there, but another issue is that I've partnered with someone with five washes and he may have me pull money for him. The big problem I see there is for the most part I'll only be at those washes to handle money, and I don't need someone watching for that. I was at one of his just the other day and overheard a customer washing and talking to a guy on a bike who rode through, the customer talking about how he got off on charges over a bank robbery.

 

[srr5008]

I agree for the most part, I don't want to become a target just for someone to steal my gun. Another operator used to own a wash a few miles up the same road mine is on, and his full time help had to stand behind him gun in hand while he pulled the safes because people walking on the sidewalk would turn and walk toward him when they saw him dumping the quarters. I'm a good bit farther from the road and haven't had any issues at all so far and may not worry about it there, but another issue is that I've partnered with someone with five washes and he may have me pull money for him. The big problem I see there is for the most part I'll only be at those washes to handle money, and I don't need someone watching for that. I was at one of his just the other day and overheard a customer washing and talking to a guy on a bike who rode through, the customer talking about how he got off on charges over a bank robbery.

To clarify, I'm not worried about someone stealing my gun if I am open carrying. I'm worried about someone shooting first, and asking questions later.

As far as pulling money in the public eye goes, I don't know what your setup is like but I have spare bill magazines that I swap (so no cash is visible) and I carry my coin hoppers into my engine room and empty them out of sight of the public. Granted, anyone who is paying attention or looking for that type of activity knows what is going on; but my thought is the more you can do to minimize your exposure, the better. Again, just my two cents - everyone's setup is different.

 

[MEP001]

To clarify, I'm not worried about someone stealing my gun if I am open carrying.

It may be an unfounded concern, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone tried. It's a pretty bad neighborhood. I've had several homeless people walk quietly up behind me, probably not meaning to do anything but I yell and cuss at them to run them off the property anyway.

As far as pulling money in the public eye goes, I don't know what your setup is like but I have spare bill magazines that I swap (so no cash is visible) and I carry my coin hoppers into my engine room and empty them out of sight of the public. Granted, anyone who is paying attention or looking for that type of activity knows what is going on; but my thought is the more you can do to minimize your exposure, the better. Again, just my two cents - everyone's setup is different.

At another wash I used to do that, but this one is too busy for me to pull the safe drawer and bring it inside, plus there's no way to carry it with one hand. No bill acceptors in the bays so no issue there.

 

[Rfreeman]

It may be an unfounded concern, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone tried. It's a pretty bad neighborhood. I've had several homeless people walk quietly up behind me, probably not meaning to do anything but I yell and cuss at them to run them off the property anyway.

I know a car wash owner here in Dallas that had a similar situation except the homeless person came at him with a pry bar, unfortunately the owner was forced to pull his gun and ultimately killed the man. Later the man's family found out the owner had multiple locations and sure enough here came the lawsuits.....his family never got anything but sucks we live in such a litigious society because the owner had a pretty sizable attorney bill. That being said I don't think I would have handled the situation any differently. Additionally, I believe its the homeless or drug users that worry me or that I have at least found to be the less reasonable individuals at one of my washes. The thugs or want to be thugs when addressed to move or turn down the music or overall interaction with them I haven't had issues with, but I find myself more cautious around a homeless individual that may be coming off a high from the night before.

I did have a situation where a homeless man was going through my trash as I pulled up to the wash. This was at night and I was in the area so I decided to swing by and check on the place. From the bay I parked I asked him to stop going through the trash and making a mess (he was under the vac canopy about 20 yards away) and he took exception to this and started walking my direction yelling and screaming. I turned with hand on holster and he froze in his tracks and quickly apologized and backed up. I do carry, .40 cal glock 23 but more than anything in this business with some of our washes being located in less affluent areas....situational awareness is a must.

 

[MEP001]

I know a car wash owner here in Dallas that had a similar situation except the homeless person came at him with a pry bar, unfortunately the owner was forced to pull his gun and ultimately killed the man. Later the man's family found out the owner had multiple locations and sure enough here came the lawsuits.....his family never got anything but sucks we live in such a litigious society because the owner had a pretty sizable attorney bill. That being said I don't think I would have handled the situation any differently. Additionally, I believe its the homeless or drug users that worry me or that I have at least found to be the less reasonable individuals at one of my washes. The thugs or want to be thugs when addressed to move or turn down the music or overall interaction with them I haven't had issues with, but I find myself more cautious around a homeless individual that may be coming off a high from the night before.

I've only had one crazy homeless so far who tried to live in the dumpster fence, had a criminal trespass warrant issued on him and he hasn't been a problem since. I've certainly seen and heard lots of horrible things they can do, including the one that ate another man's face. I've watched the show COPS for the last 32 years and seen how sometimes nothing but five more cops or a bullet will slow them down. My fiancée has a handheld taser "zapper" and thinks that's protection. I keep telling her it doesn't stun them unconscious like they show on TV and in movies.

I did have a situation where a homeless man was going through my trash as I pulled up to the wash. This was at night and I was in the area so I decided to swing by and check on the place. From the bay I parked I asked him to stop going through the trash and making a mess (he was under the vac canopy about 20 yards away) and he took exception to this and started walking my direction yelling and screaming. I turned with hand on holster and he froze in his tracks and quickly apologized and backed up. I do carry, .40 cal glock 23 but more than anything in this business with some of our washes being located in less affluent areas....situational awareness is a must.

Most of the homeless I confront about going through the vacs and trash are polite and apologetic, even though a lot of them promise not to come back but do again anyway and still make a mess. There's only been one person that's been aggressive, looked and acted like he was on something, and he was driving a truck. He's one I'll have to let see I'm armed.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

... I'm thinking at least 9 rounds ...

... I won't be carrying all the time ...

... I don't think I would pocket carry ...

... I also have difficulty fishing stuff out of my pockets ...

Given these comments, looking at the smaller compact/concealable choices being discussed above doesn't make sense to me. (perhaps those models popped into your consciousness because theyre being heavily marketed?) Less capacity, a little harder to be accurate, slower aquisition under speed/stress, usually less of a natural/comfortable fit in your hand, less of the fear factor ("aw, thats not a gun- THIS is a gun!"), etc.
When you go to the range to try a few, add the full size choices to your list: maybe glock 17 & 19, sig 320, m&p 2.0, springfield xd.

And because I'm old and traditional, I'll be the one to say it: real men shoot a 1911.
Seriously though, try a full size 1911, there is *arguably* truth to that statement, plus you just might utterly fall in love with it.
Also I've used a 1911 as a simple test to help people decide between glock & anything else - most people shoot either the 1911 or the glock accurately, but not both. (primarily due to the grip angle). If you clearly shoot the glock better, get a glock. Otherwise dont.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

btw, you did not ask a simple question with a quick answer. Most people spend years and years searching for the perfect one. Not sure if anybody said it yet, but having any one of them is much more important than which one you get. Its hard to make a mistake and get a bad one, and its extremely hard to get the ideal one.