Wood Boiler Consumption

[Parker]

Just wondering if any one is using a wood boiler for heat and if so how much wood they?re going through?. Just trying to get ready for this coming winter and the $5 gallon oil price isn?t looking fun to deal with?. We burned through 10,000 gallons last year here and would love to cut that number down?

 

[pitzerwm]

I'm think that the car replaced the horse, for the obvious waste issue, and I would think that the oil burner replace the wood burner for similar reasons. In many places there is code for a wood stove, I would be surprised if wood burning really makes sense.

 

[MEP001]

You'd have the issue of having to feed a wood boiler, and I doubt you'd get the volume uou'd need for a wash unless it was the size of a train engine. There are self-feeding corn-burning stoves that burn clean and with almost no ash - perhaps there are boilers of a similar type.

 

[Whale of a Wash]

I am in a really cold area, and alot of(Homes and businesses) are going to geothermal,whether it is pipes laid horizontal or wells or the heat pumps that just work down to zero, but they return 125% of heat for the electricity used, or even just electric boilers. With my washes i can go without floor heat into the teens, the buildings and garage doors retain enough of the wash water heat. But the extreme wx and energy prices will change how we do business.

John
Fargo, ND

 

[Reds]

I use an outside wood boiler to heat my house. I "feed" it twice a day in the winter. I heat a 3500 sq.ft house with one "load" of wood a year. One load is a logging truck full of wood that I pay $350 for. My oil fired boiler has not run more than 2 hours in the last year (because I let the fire go out a couple times). One of the local fire companies heats their firehouse with one, but it is big enough to load with a forklift. You need to get one with a fan so that it creates enough draft to keep the smoke from laying in the area. You also need to check local regulations and consider the possible effect of smoke that could lay in the area on days when there is no breeze. You would need a big boiler and a big wood supply (and someplace close to stack it) to replace an oil fired boiler that was burning 10k gallons per year. And you have to cut and split that wood unless you have one big enough to load with a forklift. I load mine at dawn and dusk. Every day.

 

[Reds]

One other thing. The typical outside boiler that you see behind homes cost about 8k installed. And will probably be 10k by this winter. You also have to run a circulator pump 24 x 7. Mine is also plumbed so the house boiler takes over if I'm away and my fire goes out.

 

[Parker]

the wood boiler I have been looking at is one from wood doctor. Its 1.3 million btu that measures 104" tall, 92" wide, and 103" long. The also claim it will burn 80-85% effcient (which is around what most oil burners run at).

so i guess if quickly looking at it if I used 10k gallons last year and I would expect to use the same amount this year at $5 a gallon that would be 50k

1 cord of wood equals around 110 gallons.... so 10k gallons = 91 cord of wood

avg cost of a cord of wood is $220 .... so lets just say i use 100 cord.... that means i would spend 22k... saving me 28k

it all looks good on paper but to me stuff never works the same in life as it does on paper...

 

[IBFLYIN]

How about coal? I have 2- 3 and 1 washes and both are run by a 300,000 BTU coal boiler. Automatic bay is kept at 45 degrees and the SS bay floors are at 32. We heat water to 90 degrees for the wash cycle of the SS. Rinse water is maybe 60 degrees. I don't know the price of coal this year, last year when oil prices were going crazy I stock piled 200 tons hard coal, delivered for 129 a ton. Each car wash burns between 10-15 ton per year. Put 4 "grain scoop shovels" in in the morning, 3 at night.

 

[ScottV]

Parker,

The math certainly works. Just make sure that your local ordinances allow for outdoor wood furnaces. Municipalities in our area of upstate NY are starting to restrict these "smoke belchers" due to public health and air quality reasons. I think the problem is some people were burning garbage, etc in their home heating units and the neighbors started complaining. They were hauling their asthmatic kids into the city meetings, claiming they couldnt play in their own back yard and breath clean air, it was a real tree-hugging spectacle.
We had a competitor try installing one of these units at his 4 bay SS and the city shut him down after he burned wood for one month. Initial Investment, re-plumbing of floor heat, etc. thrown right out the window!

ScottV

 

[Parker]

yeah I hear Maine has some of the strictest regulations on wood boilers but I'm going to try to get a variance if I think it ends up being worth it in the long run....

 

[Greg Pack]

I'm just gonna throw this out: Law of supply & demand and rising costs of all energy will affect everything. As people look for alternatives to oil, wood will be popular. My bet is Firewood will cost as least 50% more than last season by next year. Coal futures have doubled since last year.

 

[Jim Caudill]

I've been beating the drum for several years (back on the old forum) about coming up with more energy efficient systems for car washes. I haven't really written that much on the new forum, but I have made references to coming up with newer, energy-efficient, heating systems. I think the problem has to be approached systematically: beginning with the slab design, layout of tubing circuits and manifolds, and control valves. These parameters need to offer maximum flexibility in controlling the flow of heated water.

Next, we need to look at different ways to get heat into the water. Geothermal, heat pumps, solar panels, and tankless heaters can be blended into hybrid systems that makes sense for the specific application and utility cost/availabilty.

Finally, we need a PLC with appropriate sensors and control valves to determine at any given time the optimal method to provide just the right amount of heat from the cheapest source to meet the demand selected by the car wash operator.

Yes, it would be somewhat expensive to install (prohibitive for me to retrofit), but it would provide an efficient system that could serve for years to come.

I have elected to shut my bays down when it gets too cold, rather than pay my gas supplier more than my monthly revenue.

 

[Greg Pack]

Jim, would love to hear more of your ideas and how to implement.

 

[Reds]

91 cords of wood is an incredible amount of wood to unload, stack, store, and handle.

 

[Jim Caudill]

I just got notice today that my natural gas supplier will sell me gas beginning in November "at a rate that will not exceed $1.599 per CCF on a month to month basis. Your price will remain at this level or less every month unless IGS Energy first provides you with 30 days advance notice."

This does not include transportation charges, customer service fees, or taxes. It was just a year or so ago that I had a maximum rate of $1.11 per CCF. Right now it looks like the extra charges will add about 25 cents per CCF to the "commodity charges". So, it looks like we're being setup for natural gas charges of about $1.85 per CCF this winter; that is, unless IGS decided to give me 30day notice that they want to charge more.

For those of you that buy gas based on the "therm", 100 cu ft (or 1CCF) is roughly equivalent. A "therm" or "CCF" can be assumed to each provide 100,000 btu's. So, my 500,000 btu per hour underheat floor boiler, consumes about 5 CCF (or therms) per hour. Put simply, the floor heat will cost about over $9 per hour that the gas valve is actually "on". For me, this occurrs when the outside air temp drops below, and remains at, around 20 degrees. Above 20 degrees and when it is only dipping down at night, my underfloor heat boiler will cycle some; but it seems like it is at least "on" 50% or more of the time.

Also, it used to be that I figured the cost of just keeping the hot water warm in the 100 gallon storage tank to cost me about $70 per month. That was when gas was like 73 cents per CCF. It would now appear that that portion of the bill is going to be over $150 per month!

 

[Jim Caudill]

Continued:

Bottom line is the payback period for any significant energy savings measures will be a lot shorter than you may have thought. If you're in this business for the long haul (I don't think I am), you can either invest now, or pay thru the nose to the utilities, and pay even more for your procrastination later. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, - I know. But, had I made the investment back in 2002, being in this business long term, might have been an option. I should have torn up the slabs and redone the plumbing/manifolding properly, insulated the new slab, thrown the boiler in the trash heap, and installed a geothermal system with hot water consumption capability. I should have given myself the flexibilty to close down any number of my 4 self-serve bays, throw an insulating blanket on the floor and close the insulated doors. Then as business warrants, open up only what is needed to meet customer demand, and shut it down at night.

 

[Parker]

91 cords of wood is an incredible amount of wood to unload, stack, store, and handle.

it would be delivered tree length from a self loader (no work for me) and cut in 6 foot sections, it also helps we have a excavator on premise to pick logs form the pile and to cut as needed

 

[Parker]

i do like the idea of geothermal but how easy is it to do, what?s the cost, and is it even really doable for the area I?m (northern Maine) in single digit numbers is common around here during the night and teens for the day.... i guess i not really up on it, I?ll google about it but any info you guys have would be great to hear

 

[MEP001]

Geothermal is burying pipe or tube deep in the ground where the temperature stays around 50-55 degrees all year long. Liquid is pumped through and circulated. In the south it's not uncommon to see it used as an AC supplement. For floor heat the cold water from the bays would be passed through the tubing and warmed before it returns to the boiler.

 

[Dirtychuck]

There is a wash nearby that uses an outdoor wood boiler. It is made by Central Boiler. I spoke with the owner after it was installed and he seemed pretty happy with it...