Foam brush problems

[Rtharlan]

Ok, looking at Cherry Blossom they do indeed recommend a 600:1 ration, which would explain the two stage dilution process. He was doing this instead of a dual port injector. Clean the inlet screen on the hydrominders, replace the diaphragms, and check to make sure the proper discharge tube is used and is not so stiff that it has lost a seal on the eductor.

I don't think its a softener because the color of the solution would still be bright red, it just wouldn't be foamy.

After some inspection there were no screens for the incoming water for both hydrominders. And. After looking closer i got one of the colors wrong on the jets. He was using blue on first stage. Then what looks to be beige on the second.

Both discharge tubes have the restrictor on in them. I think im going to get all new hoses and foot valves. Get screens. And rebuild the hydrominders.

 

[Randy]

While you’re at it also get 15 gallon container that way you can eliminate one of the Hydrominders. https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-1945-cherry-blossom-foamy-brush-car-wash-detergent.aspx#description

From KR web page:
Directions:

Add 10 gallons of water to make 15 gallons of foamy brush detergent.

Use yellow metering tip.

I've found that it is very hard for a Hydrominder to pull the thick undiluted chemical directly from the 5 gallon pail. Under perfect conditions with the correct water pressure etc. it might work OK, but any fluctuations in water pressure or equipment problems your going to get an inconsistent product out in the bay.

 

[WBNTEXAS]

Randy, what problems were you having with KR soap?

 

[Randy]

Randy, what problems were you having with KR soap?

We had nothing but problems with the KR ultra concentrates separating in the winter. The surfactant would drop out solution and once it dropped out it wouldn't go back into solution and made a heck of a mess in the hydrominder hose and solution tank. It smells good, but doesn't clean very well. We use JBS Fonic now and are real happy with it.

 

[Randy]

Do you have an update? Did you resolve your problem?

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW I use the Cherry Blossom with an Ultra Lean 320 / 1 tip . Maybe even smaller i will check tommorrow.

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW I was using Cherry Blossom with 320 . 1 ultra lean, perhaps even smaller but last few shipments it was not as concentrated. I have gone to 120/ 1. Looking for something else now. I complained to KR that it was not working as well and never made any headway..

 

[Rtharlan]

Do you have an update? Did you resolve your problem?

I just received the box of parts from KR. With everyday life and weep issues. Bays freezing. Ive not had time to go though everything yet. But since it will be in the 50’s here all weekend. I did put a rebuilt hydrominder on on the second tank. And i ran the concentrate hose direct. With a purple jet. It still seems a bit runny and no amount of adjusting has helped that. Its probably on the richer side also. But with the nice weather it will atleast work.

 

[Rtharlan]

FWIW I was using Cherry Blossom with 320 . 1 ultra lean, perhaps even smaller but last few shipments it was not as concentrated. I have gone to 120/ 1. Looking for something else now. I complained to KR that it was not working as well and never made any headway..

Are you diluting the cherry blossom before hand? Or is it direct concentrate?? They have used it here for years. KR must have changed there part numbers. Because the new fb soap is a bucket of cherry foam ultra by national.

 

[water guy]

I'm running Quest foam brush 240 to 1

 

[MEP001]

I don't know that product, but it seems very pink to not be foaming. You might have a bad batch or they could have changed formulations. Be prepared to readjust everything with the next supply.

 

[2Biz]

Sometimes I wonder if the OEM built systems so chaotic and sophisticated that they thought they would only be the ones able to work on it! I had a system similar to the OP's photo of his FB setup... Mark VII was another system WAY OVER engineered and almost impossible to work on...Didn't take me long to rip out all the un-necessary components and design and install a much better and less sophisticated system....For a FB and PS example, see pics below....

Take Randy's advice, ditch the double tank hydrominder system, if you're dead set on using the high ratio formula FB soap, predilute it and only use one hydrominder. You also don't need a ginormous tank for the solution...All my chemical dilution tanks are gallon size for a 4 bay...Keeps up fine! I like the KISS approach! If you also look closely, I put my air regulators ahead of the solenoids v/s how Mark VII set theirs up. On Mark VII, system pressure is on the solenoids at pressures up to 120 psi then regulated down to bay pressure...I designed my system so the regulators were ahead of the solenoids...Much easier on the solenoids ability to hold back 40 psi than 120 psi! Plus I was able to get rid of 6 air regulators for PS and FB in the process....One last thing, WTH would an OEM use particle board for the back board to the LP systems?!?!? What were they thinking! Garbage! Before and After Pics:

 

[Jason Studer]

Sounds like you got it figured out. But I would do as Bob said earlier when you get a chance and check your water hardness. 25:1 is a lot of soap. I run 150:1 and it suds up like shaving cream. I get it every soap is different, but if your water is even a little hard a $1200.00-$2000.00 softener could save a lot of money is all your soap products, and equipment wear.

 

[Rtharlan]

Sometimes I wonder if the OEM built systems so chaotic and sophisticated that they thought they would only be the ones able to work on it! I had a system similar to the OP's photo of his FB setup... Mark VII was another system WAY OVER engineered and almost impossible to work on...Didn't take me long to rip out all the un-necessary components and design and install a much better and less sophisticated system....For a FB and PS example, see pics below....

Take Randy's advice, ditch the double tank hydrominder system, if you're dead set on using the high ratio formula FB soap, predilute it and only use one hydrominder. You also don't need a ginormous tank for the solution...All my chemical dilution tanks are gallon size for a 4 bay...Keeps up fine! I like the KISS approach! If you also look closely, I put my air regulators ahead of the solenoids v/s how Mark VII set theirs up. On Mark VII, system pressure is on the solenoids at pressures up to 120 psi then regulated down to bay pressure...I designed my system so the regulators were ahead of the solenoids...Much easier on the solenoids ability to hold back 40 psi than 120 psi! Plus I was able to get rid of 6 air regulators for PS and FB in the process....One last thing, WTH would an OEM use particle board for the back board to the LP systems?!?!? What were they thinking! Garbage! Before and After Pics:

I totally agree with both you and randy. Unfortunately its not my buisness. The ER is on the small side with some rather archaic setups and such. And as of right now there is no room to put another 15 gal tank. Let alone be able to lift and dump 5 gallon buckets. It was setup to just shove a hose in an go. And has worked well until now. If i had a go ahead i would mount sll LP functions on the walls. Saving a lot of floor space. My father in law just knew the systems he built. And had a back ground in building them.

Ive recently dove in head first to help out. I found a press guage for the FB air reg thats leaky. Maybe inspecting the lines for air leaks. Ive also ordered parts to build a foamer to mount above bay. To try. Maybe it will make it easier than just plumbing air an soap into one line. Ill keep you s as ll updated as things unfold.

Btw. Love the new setup. Im very anal about being organized. It drives me crazy to go into this ER.

Also where did you get your filter bowls?

 

[MEP001]

Your Hydrominder tank can be as small as a piece of 6" PVC with a cap on the bottom. That should save you some room.

You could pre-mix your concentrate with water into 5 gallon buckets outside the room, or even off-site.

 

[Rtharlan]

Your Hydrominder tank can be as small as a piece of 6" PVC with a cap on the bottom. That should save you some room.

You could pre-mix your concentrate with water into 5 gallon buckets outside the room, or even off-site.

Thats true. I didnt think about it that way. Well. Lets see if i can fix whats there. I got all new hoses foot valves. Diaphrams. Eductors. And inlet screens. Since there wasnt any screens at all. And there wasnt an anti syphon hole in the 507. And new reg guage.

I just picked up a water hardness test kit just to see.

The cold weather surely hasnt helped as the weeps are plumbed in right after the solenoids. So it flushes the lines out.

 

[Rtharlan]

Sounds like you got it figured out. But I would do as Bob said earlier when you get a chance and check your water hardness. 25:1 is a lot of soap. I run 150:1 and it suds up like shaving cream. I get it every soap is different, but if your water is even a little hard a $1200.00-$2000.00 softener could save a lot of money is all your soap products, and equipment wear.

Its around 5.8 grains. Not sure how that stacks up.

 

[2Biz]

Also where did you get your filter bowls?

I got the SMC filter bowls from KR....You'll probably install them after the tiny hydrominder inlet screens plug! I like having "Visual" type equipment so I can see at a glance how things should be performing....Like Flowmeters....

50 Mesh Inline Fluid Strainer | LPN Series | SMC | 5586890

Use the SMC 5586890 LPN Series strainer to eliminate solids and particulates from fluid lines in your car wash. Features a 50 mesh screen.

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

 

[2Biz]

Also, 5.8 grains isn't bad....After softening, mine is zero grains....It comes in from the street at about 4-5 grains...

About 3 years ago, our water treatment plant had a softener equipment failure where they weren't softening water. It was coming in at 14-15 grains. It didn't take long for my softener to run out of capacity and killed everything!!!! Looked like straight water coming out of every selection....Took me awhile to figure out....That is how important it is to have consistent hardness water. Obviously lower is better. You'll save more than enough in chemicals to pay for the softener in a short amount of time.

Normal regeneration for my setup is about 9000 gallons. During the issue, I dialed the softener back to every 3000 gallons and all was good till the treatment plant got their softener back online...

 

[Jason Studer]

I"m at about 5 grains before softener as well, and 0-1 after. When my 30 year old softener took a crap a couple years ago, for three weeks I had to bump up my soap to like 35-1. The soap cost was killing me. I have done the math and the softener paid for itself in less then two years, Just in soap costs, not to mention the extra wear on equipment with hard water.