Dynamic vs Statis IP

[stampedecarwash]

Hello, I had to turn off our internet provided modem (not the router which a network cable comes to from each bay) few nights ago since the internet was slow and thought that fixes it. Right after connecting the modem back I got an IP conflict error on my office computer. Also noticed one of my bays is not connecting to the DAN. So I turned off that bay (by removing the fuse in the black cylinder thing) and it was good, until it happened last night again. First I turned it off but didn't work. So I changed the short network cable between DTI and the white protector thing, and this time it worked. Probably this issue is still the IP address not the cable. Just by coincidence when I turned it off for the second time it got a different IP this time.
So it seems to me the IP address of that bay somehow gets mixed up with some other devices IP??? Anyways I asked my internet provided to give me Static IP now.

 

[MEP001]

That sounds more like an internal IP address conflict. Your devices on your network will be on an internal IP address of 192.168.1.x and each one needs to be assigned to its own, otherwise you'll get a conflict at some point. Each D.A.N. terminal is set internally, but your office computer is most likely set to auto. This has nothing to do with the external IP address, which has to be static for the D.A.N. to work at all.

 

[stampedecarwash]

Well for 3 years I had no issues with not having a static IP for the DAN. I know you need to have Static IP to be able to access the DAN through VPN which I never used anyways. I did see occasional error on the DAN not being able to see the bays which asking me to shutdown the computer. Not sure if it has anything to do with the static IP plus everything was working fine.

 

[MEP001]

You're still confusing the static/dynamic IP address from your internet service provider with your computer being set to automatically obtain an IP address from the DHCP server (your internal network). But if you shut down your PC, restart your network, then boot your PC, the conflict should be gone. The PC is automatically obtaining an internal IP address that's reserved for one of your DTT units.

 

[stampedecarwash]

Thanks...This is screenshot of the error I was referring to in the previous post. I see this error once a week and forces me to shutdown the DAN. Although everything works fine.

 

[Roz]

Depending on your internet service provider the issue may be recurring because you are provided just one IP address with the modem to share among several devices. This one IP setup is the default for many internet providers and is usually fine for a house. If you have multiple systems all seeking an instantaneous internet connection (DAN, cameras that you can see via a phone, credit card processing equipment, car washing equipment that have remote access, etc) you have a scrum at times fighting for the IP address instead of sharing the IP nicely.

Our solution was to purchase a 10-pak of static IP addresses with the modem, an extra $5-$10 per month to the internet provider. This allows us to use multiple systems or devices that require a an instantaneous IP to work over the internet (connected to some external system). Eliminates the potential for fighting among the systems and our need to reboot a system so the IP address is released. Each internet provider is different on the cost and static IP bundles (some will sell in a 5-pak, some have a minimum of a 10-pak, some will sell extra IPs individually).

You might want to find a network person to set up the IPs if you go this path as you can set each IP to a dedicated device or you can have all ten available to all machines and each machine dynamically asks the network for an IP. We had the same situation arise in multiple locations shortly after we purchased each place - issue will become more common as more of our equipment is made to be on a network for remote access and troubleshooting.

 

[mjwalsh]

I tend to agree with Roz. We have a 5 pack with ours for free but I have been told by the internet provider that there policy for new hookups requesting ip addresses are ... if I remember right more expensive than Roz's option. Dell-Soniwall 24/7 support & me sometimes try to tweak the commercial grade router for the best use of my 5 Static IP addresses. We are into remote desktop & more & more IP-NVRs etc for our cameras. Part of the dialog with Dell-Sonicwall tech support was possibly coughing up more money for VPN.

 

[Roz]

We implemented Sonic walls too in all locations. They are a pain to configure initially but fine and more secure after in place. Get some support or help if installing a Sonic wall, someone who is very familiar with them as not all “network experts” can handle working with them. Speaking from experience.

 

[JGinther]

Any chance you aren't logging out? Then clicking on something later after that session timed out that you would have to login for normally? I know that can cause the program to crash.

Depending on the router you have, it may or may not have good IP reservation capabilities. Newer routers are pretty good at recognizing the MAC and device name and keeping an IP reserved automatically for that same device if it were to come online again later. Others will gladly give up the same IP to whatever device comes online first if you do not manually set up an IP reservation. Due to this, It is best practice to statically assign (I'm talking locally here, nothing to do with the ISP) each of the Hamilton devices in a range that is well above the range that the router would start to dynamically assign new devices at (example: if gateway is 192.168.0.1; configure devices starting at 192.168.0.150 and higher). This way you are highly unlikely to have conflicts even with old dumb routers. The number one thing, though, is to statically address the network card of the DAN (like Mep001 mentioned). If it boots up with a new address, or if another device steals it while its rebooting, none of your devices will communicate with the DAN since they only are told to send data to a specific IP address. You have to log into the administrator side to configure the network adapter addressing.

 

[MEP001]

Any chance you aren't logging out? Then clicking on something later after that session timed out that you would have to login for normally? I know that can cause the program to crash.

Depending on the router you have, it may or may not have good IP reservation capabilities. Newer routers are pretty good at recognizing the MAC and device name and keeping an IP reserved automatically for that same device if it were to come online again later. Others will gladly give up the same IP to whatever device comes online first if you do not manually set up an IP reservation. Due to this, It is best practice to statically assign (I'm talking locally here, nothing to do with the ISP) each of the Hamilton devices in a range that is well above the range that the router would start to dynamically assign new devices at (example: if gateway is 192.168.0.1; configure devices starting at 192.168.0.150 and higher). This way you are highly unlikely to have conflicts even with old dumb routers. The number one thing, though, is to statically address the network card of the DAN (like Mep001 mentioned). If it boots up with a new address, or if another device steals it while its rebooting, none of your devices will communicate with the DAN since they only are told to send data to a specific IP address. You have to log into the administrator side to configure the network adapter addressing.

The D.A.N. and the DTT terminals have to be each set to a specific IP address or they can't communicate at all. I can't remember if I had to specify them in the router as well.

 

[Sequoia]

MEP and JGinther provide some useful information. But I am curious about more.

First, your system was working for some length of time with no IP address conflicts, correct? If that answer is yes, I doubt that you need to purchase more static IP's.

Do you know how to login to your modem, and router, and view the settings? Either your modem, or our router, is acting as a DHCP server and is handing out IP addresses to everything that starts or boots up. It would be interesting to know which one is acting as the DHCP server. Which brings up the next issue.

The IP conflict could have been caused by the sequence of starting up. Normally the modem starts, then the router, then downstream devices. But when you "reset" the modem, you upended that sequence. Usually that is not a problem but it sometimes can be. I would try turning everything off, then turning things on in sequence:
- modem first, give it plenty of time to become operational (prob 5 mins)
- router next, same as above,
- then turn each downstream device on, one at a time, and give each time to start up and obtain an IP address from the DHCP server (in the modem or router.)

btw, you described an IP address conflict, but the error message simply says the software stopped functioning. You may have a problem elsewhere that is not related to an IP conflict, which could also explain why the system was running slow back when this all started.

These things are very difficult to troubleshoot through a chat room -- you might consider some local IT support.

 

[Sequoia]

The D.A.N. and the DTT terminals have to be each set to a specific IP address or they can't communicate at all. I can't remember if I had to specify them in the router as well.

If you did, you likely had to create a firewall rule to route specific traffic to each IP address at each device. If that routing table has become incorrect (I doubt it) it probably requires an IT person to sort it out.

 

[MEP001]

I don't think I did, pretty sure the devices just take the IP address you enter. I know I did something in the modem/router, probably just named the devices.

 

[JGinther]

If you did, you likely had to create a firewall rule to route specific traffic to each IP address at each device. If that routing table has become incorrect (I doubt it) it probably requires an IT person to sort it out.

This isn't necessary, as the DAN computer resides on the LOCAL network. The Hamilton devices (DTTs, Goldlines, Changers, HTKs, etc.) are configured to talk to the DAN 'server'. This is done by configuring the device (controller) to talk to a certain LOCAL IP address which is the DAN computers address on the LOCAL network. For remote access to the web interface of the DAN, you would have to have a 'PUBLIC' static address, then configure the firewall to allow port 443 (secure http) requests through to the LOCAL IP address of the DAN. Hosted Solutions is a monthly service Hamilton offers which gets rid of this IT and security (open port on a firewall) issue by uploading DAN data to the cloud for access from a website.

 

[Sequoia]

This isn't necessary, as the DAN computer resides on the LOCAL network.

I know zero about the DAN network. So I can't comment about that. But the DAN error message, to me, does not look like an IP address conflict. Of course I don't know what error message the system might serve up in response to a given error.

Since it was working previously without problem, I would first try starting things up in order. Then going from there.

 

[mjwalsh]

Since it was working previously without problem, I would first try starting things up in order. Then going from there.

The perfect sequence of driver loading & other loading sequencing ... reminds me of the nightmare "auteexec.bat & config.sys technicalities of the DOS & earliest versions of Windows days ... back in 1982 ... when I invested in my first IBM PC from the local "Computerland Franchise".

I am not sure if any of the IT experts ever did get a complete handle on those sequence problems until different $$$ hardware & $$$ software updates came to the rescue after many years.

 

[Sequoia]

Sounds like you missed out on the glory days of CP/M?