High pressure soap problems, HELP!

[csmith]

Just for starters i did read back through the thread that was talking about my current situation but didn’t really see a fix..

so i keep having a problem with high pressure soap getting thin, if i cut the water supply back i can get it to get it thick again and it will stay that way for the day, even after i open it back up. when i come back the next morning it’s weak. I have rebuilt the hydrominder and put a new educator and tip in. I don’t believe it’s a problem with my mixing tank diluting. The mixing tank always looks rich in color.

kinda lost any advice is much appreciated pictures are how my setup is going!!

Should i have a check valve, should i rebuild my pump heads, let me know your advice!!

 

[mac]

Well unless you have somehow stumbled onto and plumbed into a natural spring, the water is coming from somewhere. Sounds like you have eliminated the main source from the Hydrominder. That leaves these sources: 1. Do you have a weep system? There should be a check valve between the suction of the pump and the mixing tank. The weep valve and/or the check valve could be leaking. 2. Have see rare cases where the dividing wall between the rinse water and soap mixture starts to leak. 3. When it gets diluted, do you find the normal water level in the tank? If it's higher then you have most likely that check valve leaking. 4. try changing out the foot valve in the soap bucket. 5. Had one case where an owner kept complaining about not getting enough soap to his automatic. When we went out there all was normal. Turned out to be a small piece of plastic like from a bag, was in the tank. Sometimes when the machine was getting soap the plastic would float over the fitting on the bottom of the tank. By the time we got there it had floated away, and because it was the sale color as the soap you could not see it. Drain the tank and clean well. 6. At my wash I have the RO water holding tanks up in the roof trusses. Saves a lot of valuable floor space. Every now and then however something will leak at it goes wherever gravity takes it. 7. It looks like you have hot water also. There might be a supply solenoid leaking.
That's all of the guesses I have. Let us know what you find.

 

[Twodose]

so i keep having a problem with high pressure soap getting thin, if i cut the water supply back i can get it to get it thick again and it will stay that way for the day, even after i open it back up. when i come back the next morning it’s weak.

Are you talking about out in the bay? If not maybe you can clarify your situation so we can get a better picture as to exactly what you are talking about.
Also from a previous post it looks like you are using blendco's system?

 

[csmith]

It’s out in the bay is what I’m referring to, i have no issue in holding tank. it’s just not sucking enough chemical through the T, like i said above if i turn down the water supply it will get strong (soapy). But will only stay that way for the day..

I was using blendco, I’ve recently swapped over to quest, but this has been an on going issue

 

[MEP001]

Is the valve vibrating back open? Is the problem on one bay or all of them? Do you see the issue when no one is washing, or does it happen in a bay when another bay is in use?

 

[csmith]

I will turn down the water supply valve to get it sucking the chemical and then open it back up. it’s all bays really, some are worse than others like i said it like I’m just not gettin enough suction through my chemical line. my bay closest to the soap supply looks the best. Should i leave all my valves partially shut?

 

[Twodose]

i turn down the water supply it will get strong (soapy). But will only stay that way for the day.

so are you talking about the water supply to the pump? by turn down, do you mean to starve the pump to create enough suction to pull the soap through the pump?

 

[csmith]

Yes that is exactly what i mean.

 

[Twodose]

Are your pumps gravity fed or on citi water pressure? Also do you have to adjust each pump separately?

 

[MEP001]

You may need to leave the valves partially closed to force the pumps to pull soap. It's okay to leave them like that, as long as you don't restrict it so much that it's always cavitating. Whenever I need to do that, I tie the gun trigger in the bay with a bungee cord and adjust the valve closed until I hear it cavitate and then open it back just until it's smooth and quiet.

 

[csmith]

They are gravity fed, i have a hot water line and a cold water line that have a two way valve, so yes i have a shut off valve on the hot and cold for each bay..

 

[cantbreak80]

That’s always been an issue with Mark VII Proline.
Follow MEP’s advice or re-plumb the pump inlets with 1/2” hose.

 

[csmith]

Which inlets are you meaning?

 

[cantbreak80]

The water supply to the pumps.
Mark VII used 3/4" hose to feed the pumps. That size provides more than enough water...preventing soap and wax suction.
Every Mark VII system I've ever worked on required throttling the water supply with the ball valves...
That is, until I replumbed the pump station.
Maybe 2Biz will post a photo of the rework he did on his Mark VII system.

 

[Twodose]

The problem with that type of system is consistency, where as you may have more pull on one pump than the other. Yea I would do like mep said but in the long run change the pipe size as cantbreak suggested, I believe it would give more consistency throughout all the bays.

 

[Kevin James]

What you’re going to have to do is install a valve on the water inlet on each pump with a flow meter on the soap and wax side of the pump so you can regulate the chemical flow to the pump. We use a tennis ball to hold open the gun handle in the bay.

 

[2Biz]

The water supply to the pumps.
Mark VII used 3/4" hose to feed the pumps. That size provides more than enough water...preventing soap and wax suction.
Every Mark VII system I've ever worked on required throttling the water supply with the ball valves...
That is, until I replumbed the pump station.
Maybe 2Biz will post a photo of the rework he did on his Mark VII system.

CantBreak80 is absolutely correct! He was the one who helped me when I was having the same issues with my original Mark VII system. I ripped out all the old plumbing and reinstalled new over 6 years ago. Instead of the 3/4" hose and fittings from the gravity tank, I used all 1/2" hose and 1/2" fittings. There are no water valves installed that restrict flow to draw soap and wax. Water flow is wide open and still gives enough restriction to draw soap and wax... The Erie valves for Hot/Cold flow have been absolutely trouble free. Not a single failure, but A LOT EASIER to change out now if one ever did fail...I have flow meters to set all bays up the same for soap and wax. Since installing this setup 6 years ago, I have never touched the solenoid needle valves and still have the same chemical flow as I set up originally....Completely trouble free!

The photos below show how I replumbed the original equipment. The last photo, is how I will replumb the Giant regulators when they start to fail. Something to note, the giant regulators have a built in C/V to keep weep from backflowing to the float tank. Kind of a hidden little gremlin that will bite you sooner or later. The new system I designed incorporates Paraplate Regulators and will be much easier to service. All C/V's are serviceable...BTW, there is a C/V inside the square aluminum block that holds the whole assembly...The C/V keeps weep from backflowing to the pump and gravity feed tank. The C/V that enters at 90° is the weep C/V...

Both assemblies are designed to make servicing a breeze if ever there is a failure. The original equipment not so easy! Actually pretty impossible!

 

[csmith]

what is that last picture you posted? I have a 2 inch pvc line that runs behind my pump stand, could I just reduce down from that point to pumps and still get the same effect?

 

[2Biz]

The PVC pipes behind my stand was 3". I eliminated them and ran individual 1/2" hose to each pump from the float tanks. I made new float tanks with individual ball valves attached in order to isolate each pump for maintenance. I'll post a photo of my float tanks tomorrow. So the setup in last picture just does away with the giant regulator and simplifies the check valves and whole setup.

 

[mac]

Now that you've clarified things it seems pretty obvious that the pump seals just need to be replaced. I turned down the water supply valve many times also to get an old pump to work Does not hurt the pump as long as you don't close it too much and the pump starts to cavitate. Have someone in the bay with the trigger pulled and SLOWLY close the valve till the pump runs rough, and then open it till it's smooth again. That will buy you time to get a seal kit and replace them.