Trying to get away from HF presoak on Touch free IBA

[Monte]

I'm relatively new at this business and would really appreciate some advice on leaving HF presoak and going to a product not so problematic. Hard to get straight talk from soap techs. It is easier to trust people who have actually been through the process.

 

[Waxman]

sample a few high ph options from kleen rite inbay presoak worked well for me. i make my own blend of simoniz correct powder , foam additive and simoniz ultra. some use a booster, but i have never tried one.

 

[Monte]

I have been trying to learn from some of the things you have posted in the past.... would you still suggest trying two passes of the hiPh instead of low ph then hiPh? I suppose like most things, it's trial and error in a car wash region. I'm in Willamette Valley, OR.

 

[BenBranam]

Hi or Low depends on what you are trying to get off the vehicle. A low PH presoak should get inorganic (road grime) off of the vehicle. The Hi PH presoak should get organics off the vehicle (bugs, bird droppings, and greases).

Monte, it's more of a question of what you are trying to get off the vehicle than which one you should use.

Presoaks in an IBA are hard too. Most presoaks need a dwell time to work. Most IBA it's hard to get a dwell time because what are you going to do, just stop the machine and let it site for 15 seconds? No, that's not going to work.

Ask and check with any chemical manufacturer you use what the dwell time should be and what the recommended dilution rate is. A lot of companies like to put "up to" rates that may or may not work. If you can get the company to give you three dilution rates, an up to, a recommended, and an economy use, that would help a lot.

Here's the hard part; you will probably have to change the tips in your machine to change the dilution rates to match the new chemicals. Very few are all the same. It's something that not every car washer owner learns, but it is something you should know and understand.

If you need any more help send me a message and I'd be happy to help.

 

[Waxman]

I like doing 2 passes of hi ph. I'm opposed to using hf and abf and even oxalix acids. I know they get the car clean, but there are consequences to the machinery and to the health of the human body.

 

[BenBranam]

I like doing 2 passes of hi ph. I'm opposed to using hf and abf and even oxalix acids. I know they get the car clean, but there are consequences to the machinery and to the health of the human body.

You can use a product that has a low PH, but not that low. Lots of car washes use stuff that is less then a 1 on the ph scale and that is just about the same thing as battery acid. There are other products that will do well that have a little higher PH. Once you get over 1 and into 2 it is no longer as dangerous to you, your equipment, or others.

Just something to think about because the high PH and the low PH do get a little different things off the car.

 

[washnshine]

I like doing 2 passes of hi ph. I'm opposed to using hf and abf and even oxalix acids. I know they get the car clean, but there are consequences to the machinery and to the health of the human body.

Agree 100%

In addition - over time, there will also be consequences to your customers vehicle finishes with HF - paint, trim, plastic, glass, metal etc. - it takes a toll on all of those materials. Getting cars clean periodically is not enough- customers want washes that maintain their shine/appearance and retain the “new car” look longer.

 

[jfmoran]

I'm relatively new at this business and would really appreciate some advice on leaving HF presoak and going to a product not so problematic. Hard to get straight talk from soap techs. It is easier to trust people who have actually been through the process.

Are you operating a friction or touchless machine? What "straight talk " are you not getting from your soap tech? Are they telling you they have no alternative to HF? KInda weird, since most of the industry has moved away from HF. While HF does work, it's also cheap, which is the main reason someone would stay with it.

 

[Monte]

I have 3 PDQ Laser360Plus touchless machines. My soap guys are treating me well, however, all I hear from them is that nothing out there works. But I listen to operators on this site, and it sounds like people are doing fine without HF. I am just looking to continue experimenting with other presoaks, so I can get away from HF and still get a clean car. Yah, I hate working around HF, especially having my kids near it down the road. At this point, also trying to find out operators $/wash for their Presoaks. I have been at $.65-$.90 summer to winter rate.

 

[MEP001]

Are you sure your presoak has hydrofluoric acid in it, assuming that's what you mean by HF?

If you're using something that strong, your presoak cost per wash should be a lot lower than that.

 

[Monte]

Are you sure your presoak has hydrofluoric acid in it, assuming that's what you mean by HF?

If you're using something that strong, your presoak cost per wash should be a lot lower than that.

 

[Monte]

Yah...my HF low pH is $.20-30 and my high pH is $.40-60.
Would love advice on where my cost would be using your favorite non-HF presoaks.

 

[Mr. Clean]

I have always favored CSI Performix, with JBS Storm Hyper a close second. Both high pH.

 

[AnalyticWash]

You can be under $1 low + high with even the most expensive chemicals in the industry. Find a chem rep that knows what they are doing (and one that works with more than one brand).

My thoughts on "soap guys"...
The car wash industry is full of snake oil salesman (and they make a grip selling people cheap chemicals with a high margins). Your current reps included. They pray on naive owners/operators. Be willing to kick these guys to the curb at any time.

Negotiate on whatever price they give. The margin on chemicals is nuts and they will always come down.

 

[jfmoran]

I have 3 PDQ Laser360Plus touchless machines. My soap guys are treating me well, however, all I hear from them is that nothing out there works. But I listen to operators on this site, and it sounds like people are doing fine without HF. I am just looking to continue experimenting with other presoaks, so I can get away from HF and still get a clean car. Yah, I hate working around HF, especially having my kids near it down the road. At this point, also trying to find out operators $/wash for their Presoaks. I have been at $.65-$.90 summer to winter rate.

Monte- where are you out of?

 

[Monte]

Monte- where are you out of?

Silverton, OR ( near Salem)... 50 % red dirt in the local area. Willamette Valley soils.

 

[DiamondWash]

What brand of chemical are you using and the name of the HF product?

 

[New Washdog]

Silverton, OR ( near Salem)... 50 % red dirt in the local area. Willamette Valley soils.

I am no expert but, I believe the environmental make up of your dirt has a lot to do with what works and what does not regarding chemical choice. I work at a wash in southern Vermont and we have a lot of dirt roads, trees etc. If I go 40 miles south into Massachusetts and the environment changes drastically and so does the dirt on the cars there. The dirty cars down south look like our clean cars here in Vermont. We have used HF with good results, but as you are aware you need to be ever vigilant regarding its handling. From what I've been told by my chemical rep who has been the rep for my site for the last 15yrs, and a second competing rep who comes around from time to time, we would not get the same cleaning results with a non HF product.

Talk to a couple of reps in your area, any one of them should be willing to work with you, setting up a bay to show you what they can achieve. All at no cost.

 

[Monte]

What brand of chemical are you using and the name of the HF product?

We use Quest products in our Laser 360 plus Touchless. I believe our low ph HF presoak is Complete Clean and we use Marvel for the high pH presoak. We get good results, just are looking at options to get away from HF.

 

[Greg Pack]

I'm using Quest's triton as a low ph presoak, It works pretty good, but it's going to be hard to match the cleaning ability of any HF presoak.