Vector Issue / need some help

[traveler17]

So a month ago my vector would fault out intermittently as a butterfly jam/ butterfly prox. The arms never folded in, the wash would go through the cycle , return to home position then fault out. Reset took care of it until it did it again 5 days later. The problem would seem to go away after every part change but always returns and it’s even worse now than ever. Here’s everything I’ve replaced so far. We thought we got hit by lightning so I swapped PLC “ I had another so no Money lost there. After that we went the simpler route. Changed the prox. Washed cars for 4 or 5 days til it did the same. Changed the encoder and in doing so i thought this 100 percent fixed the problem. The encoder had a small amount of rust on it which I assume water In the housing. Replaced it and wrapped the top of the housing to be water tight. Washed cars for 10 days and another fault. Changed the cable to the prox yesterday and it’s still doing it. Problem has gotten even worse now. It’ll wash 3 or 4 cars and faults. Always same fault and always finishes the wash and goes back home to the ready position. I have another tech coming tomorrow just to try someone different. Also I’ve been on the phone w Belanger well after hours and on that machine a handful of nights troubleshooting and following their recommendations. The next stop tomorrow is changing the butterfly encoder cable then swapping ports on the junction block to try and determine if the port is bad. if either of those next 2 steps don’t do it I’m gonna freak out. lol. Never had an issue like this that just can’t seem to be fixed. I should’ve come here sooner just to hear some thoughts. Any and all input, thoughts , recommendations Will be sincerely appreciate. I’m so sick of thinking it’s fixed either to get a call or look at my cams and watch cars pull up and drive away. Thanks again

 

[Waxman]

if there is a place where you can see the inputs from each sensor you can watch those while it's performing a wash and see if you are getting a signal from the proper proxes.

on my old machine there were LED lights on the input and output cards that were associated with each sensor on the machine. Sometimes due to a bad cable or prox there would be a faint light but not a bright light indicating a signal. Before you go too crazy changing more parts I would verify that you're getting the proper inputs from all the sensors Throughout a wash cycle.

 

[Waxman]

Also I'd like to add that it's better to try one repair at a time rather than changing multiple things at once. That helps narrow it down and keep track of what you've done and what you haven't done. I also always kept a repair and maintenance log because sometimes I would fix the problem and the same thing would happen a few years later and it was handy to have that log and go back to see what fixed the problem.

 

[traveler17]

Also I'd like to add that it's better to try one repair at a time rather than changing multiple things at once. That helps narrow it down and keep track of what you've done and what you haven't done. I also always kept a repair and maintenance log because sometimes I would fix the problem and the same thing would happen a few years later and it was handy to have that log and go back to see what fixed the problem.

Thanks for the tips!! Great idea w the repair/maint log. So to clarify, each part that I replaced were one at a time and after some short time “between a few days and a little over a week “ then I would go to the next. there is an led on the butterfly prox that is lit and I can watch it through the wash process. What happens is when it gets back to home the arms move slightly which then the prox led will go off and on the collar but ultimately hits what seems to be the correct position , Which the led is on. could the gear box be bad? Arms are solid where I can’t manually move them

 

[DakotaHoskins]

I think your on the right track. If both the butterfly prox and butterfly home prox and cables have been replaced (I also agree with changing euro block port.) Then I would lean to something mechanical or a motor/vfd problem.

We had a similar issue on a kondor a while back. I changed both the arm bearings, (usually is the issue on our saber)… only to find the butterfly motor was filled completely to the top with water in the electrical enclosure. We were getting drive com faults in addition to butterfly jam. Are you getting any VFD faults?

 

[traveler17]

I think your on the right track. If both the butterfly prox and butterfly home prox and cables have been replaced (I also agree with changing euro block port.) Then I would lean to something mechanical or a motor/vfd problem.

We had a similar issue on a kondor a while back. I changed both the arm bearings, (usually is the issue on our saber)… only to find the butterfly motor was filled completely to the top with water in the electrical enclosure. We were getting drive com faults in addition to butterfly jam. Are you getting any VFD faults?

No I haven’t had any VFD faults. I have a few spares in case. I’m really leaning towards what you just said. I had motor replaced probably 4 months ago or so and thinking it wasn’t sealed properly With the encoder I replaced having rust on it I have a bad feeling that’s it. I did however put a light in the encoder housing and it looked dry. Time will tell. Thank you for your 2 cents. If you have any more change I’ll take it

 

[MEP001]

if there is a place where you can see the inputs from each sensor you can watch those while it's performing a wash and see if you are getting a signal from the proper proxes.

It's on the E300 panel. Someone advised us to run an extra long cable so the E300 could be hung on the wall outside the bay, and it really came in handy several times.

 

[Waxman]

No I haven’t had any VFD faults. I have a few spares in case. I’m really leaning towards what you just said. I had motor replaced probably 4 months ago or so and thinking it wasn’t sealed properly With the encoder I replaced having rust on it I have a bad feeling that’s it. I did however put a light in the encoder housing and it looked dry. Time will tell. Thank you for your 2 cents. If you have any more change I’ll take it

If you have a prox coming on and off when it should be steady on then there is slop in something. Maybe the bearing or gearbox itself?

 

[JGinther]

Are you sure the VFD doesn't have an error when this happens? Every machine I have seen that has that error (but without VFD errors) is from the encoder. The plastic cracks and allows condensation inside encoder and circuity goes nuts.

 

[MEP001]

The Vector butterfly has a prox for sensing the position, not an encoder.

If the shuttle encoder card had signs of moisture on it, it'll for sure get wet again. Plan on ordering a replacement encoder ring (They're aluminum and deform when water gets in it).

 

[traveler17]

Are you sure the VFD doesn't have an error when this happens? Every machine I have seen that has that error (but without VFD errors) is from the encoder. The plastic cracks and allows condensation inside encoder and circuity goes nuts.

I checked the vfd when it just happened again, not showing a fault. Thanks for the response, still trying

 

[traveler17]

The Vector butterfly has a prox for sensing the position, not an encoder.

If the shuttle encoder card had signs of moisture on it, it'll for sure get wet again. Plan on ordering a replacement encoder ring (They're aluminum and deform when water gets in it).

So the collar w new encoder that was replaced in the spring was a plastic housing. When this issue started there was definite signs of water intrusion. Under Belangers direction I just swapped ports with a working carriage port and the carriage faulted. Swapped it back and put it on a port that’s not being used and it acted as f it was the problem. Literally 6 cars later did it again. Always a butterfly jam and it faults after the wash is complete. Never once faulted during a wash. I mean what could be left. Change the housing, motor and gearbox ?

 

[MEP001]

I may have been remembering incorrectly. I know it has two encoder cards, one for carriage, and is there one for the butterfly? That would make sense because the shaft goes right into the gearbox.

I just remembered that I had an issue once where the set screw in the encoder ring came loose and the ring dropped down out of range for the encoder to read properly. IIRC I was able to loosen the bolts holding the gearbox and motor together and separate them, get the ring back in position and tighten the set screw.

 

[JGinther]

If there are cracks in the encoder, I would bet that's the problem. Same with a rusty buildup which indicates water in the enclosure.

 

[traveler17]

I may have been remembering incorrectly. I know it has two encoder cards, one for carriage, and is there one for the butterfly? That would make sense because the shaft goes right into the gearbox.

I just remembered that I had an issue once where the set screw in the encoder ring came loose and the ring dropped down out of range for the encoder to read properly. IIRC I was able to loosen the bolts holding the gearbox and motor together and separate them, get the ring back in position and tighten the set screw.

Yeah there’s a butterfly encoder also.

 

[traveler17]

Update on Vector:
It turned out to be rust on the gear of the motor that the encoder card reads. Apparently 2 different tech guys that took the encoder out didn’t own a flashlight. I got up there after the fact waiting on a call back from Belanger and took the card out and shined a light in the housing. Nothing but rust On the gear. ALOT!! All it took was a $5 can of wd40 to get it running Until the new gear gets here. Finally had a full day with no faults. I’d like to thank the guys who gave input on my issue and throwing me some ideas. Sincerely appreciate everyones advice here. This forum is priceless. Thanks again

 

[MEP001]

If it's not too late to get one on the order, I highly recommend getting a new encoder housing kit, comes with gaskets and sealant. The gear is rusted because water is getting in, and it needs to be sealed or you'll have more problems. I always remove the lockwashers from the cover screws and replace the screws with stainless.

 

[traveler17]

If it's not too late to get one on the order, I highly recommend getting a new encoder housing kit, comes with gaskets and sealant. The gear is rusted because water is getting in, and it needs to be sealed or you'll have more problems. I always remove the lockwashers from the cover screws and replace the screws with stainless.

Done Also just a fyi I’m 99 percent sure water was blasting on top of the housing and that’s how it crept in. This was over 2 months ago when a hose busted. thanks again!!