Changing over to tokens?

[jack954]

your thoughts please!
thinking of going with $1tokens as my quarters are leaving the lot. would need to change out 18 coin acceptors in the process. vac start price is $1.50, bay start up is $2.50.
questions:
will customers be upset to have to use 2 tokens for vac and 3 for bays if they don’t have any quarters?
should i go with the idx x-12?
how much should i expect to pay per token?

 

[chaz]

I’d go $ U.S. Dollar coins. I hate being stuck with tokens and I bet you do to…i‘m in the Carwash biz…not token biz…make it as easy a possible for customers to spend. I only dispense $ coins but I take paper and quarters. I buy about $4k in dollar coins each month and deposit about $3k in quarters. I’m $2 6/min on vac and $3 4/min on bay

 

[washnvac]

Do a forum search. This issue has been beat to death on many posts.

 

[Waxman]

Do everything at once. raise your price to two dollars for a vacuum and three dollars for a wash. Don't go to dollar coins. Go with dollar tokens. I like inch and 1/8 because they're easy to separate from quarters. You should still except quarters as well as tokens. I did this some years ago and it made a lot of sense for me. I think it's a mistake to worry about the Difference between $1.50 and two dollars or $2.50 versus three dollars. The customers really don't care that much. It's just the operators that fret over these $.50 increments.

what will wind up happening with the above scenario in place is that you will make a lot more money. You will eliminate your walk off quarter problem and you will increase your revenue. Also you'll get some walk off tokens which is like a secret weapon toward profitability.

 

[MEP001]

FWIW I use the cheapest .984 tokens, value them at 25¢, and mix about 10% in with the quarters in the changer. I bought 10,000 tokens a little over a year ago, they're almost all gone and I've made $800 off their loss. I don't have to sort anything.

Yes, you have to switch out all your acceptors. I wouldn't use IDX or Slugbuster. I've started changing out to Microcoin QL, and so far they've been flawless. GinSan's Multitron are very hit-or-miss, you might get a good one that operates for 25 years with no issues, and you might get one that never works and won't hold programming after going back three or four times only to come back as "No problem found."

If you do go to a $1 token, all that matters is that the token costs less than $1. It will eventually walk off, and you profit when it does.

 

[Bob-O]

I went from quarters to dollar coin, found out fast that people would come in to just get the dollar coin , they said they started to collect them. Switched to
secure dollar tokens. Best thing I did.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

whats the Token Brand that yall use that's a higher Quality and hold up over time.

 

[Waxman]

call dottie hopkins at van brook

Car Wash, Security, Stock Tokens Van Brook Tokens

 

[Doug P.]

call dottie hopkins at van brook

Car Wash, Security, Stock Tokens Van Brook Tokens

I think Dottie retired. She was great to deal with, nice lady.

 

[Bob-O]

I use nickel platted high security from Van Brook. I think James is who I talked to last order.

 

[bigjws]

FWIW I use the cheapest .984 tokens, value them at 25¢, and mix about 10% in with the quarters in the changer. I bought 10,000 tokens a little over a year ago, they're almost all gone and I've made $800 off their loss. I don't have to sort anything.

Yes, you have to switch out all your acceptors. I wouldn't use IDX or Slugbuster. I've started changing out to Microcoin QL, and so far they've been flawless. GinSan's Multitron are very hit-or-miss, you might get a good one that operates for 25 years with no issues, and you might get one that never works and won't hold programming after going back three or four times only to come back as "No problem found."

If you do go to a $1 token, all that matters is that the token costs less than $1. It will eventually walk off, and you profit when it does.

So, at about $250 a piece, on say a 6 bay wash the microcoin Ql would cost about $1500 to install. If you make $800/year on unused tokens (Which seems a bit ‘enthusiastic’ to me — I’ve had a business with tokens before where the ROI seemed much less, but I have to admit I rarely think of MEP as enthusiastic) it would give you a ROI about 2 years? Do you worry/factor in outside tokens coming in? And what do you mean you don’t sort…don’t you still count the quarters/tokens to see what you are actually making monthly? I’ve thought about going to a token mix, but the numbers just don’t seem to work .. you also have to change all the coin acceptors on the vacs, detail machines, automatics .. I’d be looking at over $15k just so I don’t have to get some quarters from the bank from time to time.

 

[jack954]

thanks for the feedback. not willing to go up to $2 on vacs and $3 on bays as i increased .50 on both just last november.
i would benefit with the $1 tokens as they would be forced to put in .50 more on both but am concerned how the customer will feel about it. on the other hand, they still have the option of dropping in their own quarters or swiping their credit card as to pay the minimum.

 

[MEP001]

If you make $800/year on unused tokens (Which seems a bit ‘enthusiastic’ to me — I’ve had a business with tokens before where the ROI seemed much less, but I have to admit I rarely think of MEP as enthusiastic) it would give you a ROI about 2 years?

Sounds about right. I could mix in even more tokens, but I generally wait until my quarters are disappearing and dump in a bag of 1000. If I kept about 20% mixed in, I'm sure I'd go through the 10,000 in 6 to 9 months. I just want to not have to buy quarters.

Do you worry/factor in outside tokens coming in?

My vendors have mechanical acceptors, and in three years I've gotten maybe 30 tokens that aren't mine. If I get a token in a bay that's not mine, it cost me less than buying a token, so I don't mind.

And what do you mean you don’t sort…don’t you still count the quarters/tokens to see what you are actually making monthly?

I take quarters home once or twice a month, and I track those. The rest is bills from the changer, so since I'm perpetually refilling it the bills plus quarter overflow tells me my income.

I’d be looking at over $15k just so I don’t have to get some quarters from the bank from time to time.

If you're only having to do it from time to time, it's probably not worth it. Without tokens I would be buying at least $1000 in quarters a week, which costs me $70 (times 52 is $3640 a year). At the peak of COVID I ran out of tokens and lost 16,000 quarters in a week.

 

[Waxman]

By accepting/vending tokens for $1, you are raising your start price, but you're just not being up front and transparent about it with the customer. You're forcing them to a $2 / $3 start if they use your tokens. Your being unwilling to raise the start price doesn't make sense, because you are raising it; just for token customers.

I don't think that's a good business strategy. Customers may expect to have a higher minimum when they use their credit card, but not if they use a token...

I know from experience that 99.9988% of customers will not care about fifty cents! Only us operators think this will make a difference in customer spending habits at the wash. The only difference you will notice is more money for you on a daily basis.

 

[OurTown]

What if we took Mep's idea to the next level and dispensed mixed high security tokens with dollar coins? (maybe reverse proportions with 20% dollars/80% tokens) Could a Hamilton changer dispense both a 1.073 taken and a 1.043 dollar coin without issues? Thoughts?

 

[Randy]

What if we took Mep's idea to the next level and dispensed mixed high security tokens with dollar coins? (maybe reverse proportions with 20% dollars/80% tokens) Could a Hamilton changer dispense both a 1.073 taken and a 1.043 dollar coin without issues? Thoughts?

Yes, you can dispense both a Golden dollar coin and a 1.073 token from Hamilton Hopper if it's set up with a #11-0016 Hopper wheel. Your at the the upper limit of the #11-0016 Hopper wheel.

 

[OurTown]

Yes, you can dispense both a Golden dollar coin and a 1.073 token from Hamilton Hopper if it's set up with a #11-0016 Hopper wheel. Your at the the upper limit of the #11-0016 Hopper wheel.

What is the difference between that wheel and the 11-0016G? It looks like it is specifically for the golden dollar which is the same dimensions as a standard modern US dollar coin.

 

[mjwalsh]

I’d go $ U.S. Dollar coins. I hate being stuck with tokens and I bet you do to…i‘m in the Carwash biz…not token biz…make it as easy a possible for customers to spend. I only dispense $ coins but I take paper and quarters. I buy about $4k in dollar coins each month and deposit about $3k in quarters. I’m $2 6/min on vac and $3 4/min on bay

I am betting that Chaz's dollar coin options & not forcing tokens makes a plus for him over a potential close by competitor who is too fixated on tokens &/or CC only. I am also betting that he has coin mechs that would be ready to accept "long overdue 'albeit not here yet'" $2 coins along with a possible spare hopper that could dispense both. With our existing two 4 hopper Standards ... providing for a "higher denomination more inflation addressing coin" would be helpful long term wise.

Higher denomination universally accepted coins is something that the "noisy ... in the minority ... sometimes vicious cancel culture" does not want ... but IMHO would be a worthwhile grassroots lobbying effort combined with industries with huge numbers of self service coin op receptacles including coin op laundry washers & dryers.

 

[Bill Capron]

I take quarters, dollar coins and dollar tokens. I only dispense dollar tokens. I added Cryptopay last October, should have done it two years ago. I was $2 start on wash. When I added Cryptopay I went to $3 start on CC and $1 for tokens or quarters. I’m 19 seconds for 25 cents.
My cash sales this year are up over pre Covid 2019. My CC sales are 50% of cash sales. Quarters are about 40% of cash.
I lose about 8% of tokens. I went with dollar tokens to keep it simple, token in, machine starts.
I went with dollar coins at first expecting the government to stop printing dollar bills. When that didn’t happen I switched to tokens.

 

[MEP001]

What if we took Mep's idea to the next level and dispensed mixed high security tokens with dollar coins? (maybe reverse proportions with 20% dollars/80% tokens) Could a Hamilton changer dispense both a 1.073 taken and a 1.043 dollar coin without issues? Thoughts?

The reason I mix tokens in with quarters is so I have an influx of quarters, solely so I don't have to buy quarters. Doing the same with dollar coins and tokens won't do the same thing with dollar coins, at least for me. I'd still be going to the bank, I'd just be getting a different currency and losing money on it.

I like what this guy has done. He was at $1.50 and did away with dispensing quarters. He still takes them, dollar coins, and his own dollar tokens, and also accepts $1/5/10 bills in the bay. He said he never had a complaint about the startup price and not giving quarters, although he has since gone to $2.00. H did comment that the only "problem" is that he's making more money. The only thing I might do differently would be to offer an extra token for a $10 and two for a $20 to encourage people to take some away.