softeners
- Thread starter mac
- Start date
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
From personal experience...We tested a "conditioner" in one of the biggest operator's locations. After 1 week, we un-bypassed the softeners due to customer complaints of "no soap". Mr. Big's car washes were finely tuned and there was no way he was going to increase the soap dilution ratio.
I'll always remember his statement: "If you watch the nickels and dimes...the dollars will watch themselves."
Here's a snip from my water treatment systems supplier. I respect their opinion...beyond softeners and conditioners, they supply equipment that can treat some really nasty water.
"Essentially, it comes down to semantics and defining your terms. The no salt scale prevention technologies promoted by many water quality improvement companies are comparable in their objective and theory. When properly designed and applied, they can do a good job of maintaining scale producing minerals in solution, reducing and even preventing scale in wetted areas of the plumbing. If the primary goal is the prevention of boiler scale and related heat transfer efficiency, then magnetics, scale reduction media and other technologies will have varying positive impacts. Unfortunately, when the treated water is exposed to atmosphere, the benefits and performance degrade quickly and substantially.
Scale prevention is just one on the benefits of softening, thus this is where there is wiggle room for some to call scale prevention a softener of sorts. Using potassium chloride as the regenerant does not make a salt free softener. Potassium chloride may have advantages over sodium chloride, but it is still a salt with the residual waste water chloride issues.
Don’t be confused, as none of the popular “alternate” systems provides softened water in the traditional sense. Scale prevention systems attempt to bind the hardness minerals so they remain in the water and do not attach to plumbing surfaces. Soft water uses chemical ion exchange to remove the hardness minerals so they are unable to attach. That is basically where the similarity ends.
If you are looking only for scale reduction in always wetted areas, then scale prevention systems in that arena may be as good as a softener. There are some true no salt softeners like reverse osmosis, capacitive deionization, nano-filtration, lime softening, chemical treatment and others, but they tend to have significant hurdles that make them unrealistic for most applications.
If you are looking for benefits like significant soap/chemical use reductions, then you will need traditional softening. The keys here are your definitions.
Does scale reduction lessen spotting? From a technical sense, it can mitigate spotting issues, but not nearly to the extent of softened water. Of course, softened water does not prevent spotting either."
I'll always remember his statement: "If you watch the nickels and dimes...the dollars will watch themselves."
Here's a snip from my water treatment systems supplier. I respect their opinion...beyond softeners and conditioners, they supply equipment that can treat some really nasty water.
"Essentially, it comes down to semantics and defining your terms. The no salt scale prevention technologies promoted by many water quality improvement companies are comparable in their objective and theory. When properly designed and applied, they can do a good job of maintaining scale producing minerals in solution, reducing and even preventing scale in wetted areas of the plumbing. If the primary goal is the prevention of boiler scale and related heat transfer efficiency, then magnetics, scale reduction media and other technologies will have varying positive impacts. Unfortunately, when the treated water is exposed to atmosphere, the benefits and performance degrade quickly and substantially.
Scale prevention is just one on the benefits of softening, thus this is where there is wiggle room for some to call scale prevention a softener of sorts. Using potassium chloride as the regenerant does not make a salt free softener. Potassium chloride may have advantages over sodium chloride, but it is still a salt with the residual waste water chloride issues.
Don’t be confused, as none of the popular “alternate” systems provides softened water in the traditional sense. Scale prevention systems attempt to bind the hardness minerals so they remain in the water and do not attach to plumbing surfaces. Soft water uses chemical ion exchange to remove the hardness minerals so they are unable to attach. That is basically where the similarity ends.
If you are looking only for scale reduction in always wetted areas, then scale prevention systems in that arena may be as good as a softener. There are some true no salt softeners like reverse osmosis, capacitive deionization, nano-filtration, lime softening, chemical treatment and others, but they tend to have significant hurdles that make them unrealistic for most applications.
If you are looking for benefits like significant soap/chemical use reductions, then you will need traditional softening. The keys here are your definitions.
Does scale reduction lessen spotting? From a technical sense, it can mitigate spotting issues, but not nearly to the extent of softened water. Of course, softened water does not prevent spotting either."
MEP001
Well-known member
I had a customer try one at one of their washes with 24 grain hard water. After about six months the boiler's heat exchanger was 100% clogged.
Dan kamsickas
GinSan Technician
I live behind one of the biggest plumbing businesses in our area. When I asked them about the "salt free" softeners they raved about them. They've had a pretty good uptick in replacing water heaters at places that installed the salt free systems.
That’s kind of what I thought. The dissolved minerals have to go somewhere. Hard to believe some would try to fool you, he said with a chuckle.
