Thoughts on check valves at the booms

[MEP001]

I plan on switching wax from high pressure to low pressure for reasons. Right now I have tire cleaner, presoak, and air all going through the same check valve. I want wax to be able to run up to 150 PSI so I'm anticipating problems if I just add another tubing line to the existing valve. Here are some ways I've thought of:




This would be the simplest and has the liquid and air for each selection forced together through a check valve which I feel helps the chemical foam.



I wouldn't want customers to get a brief burst of tire cleaner or presoak if they select wax, and I think this setup would prevent that, but I lose the restriction that helps them foam.



If I go this route, I'll probably have a bank of normally open solenoids in the room to dump the pressure off the air line. I've never liked the burst of air that happens from switching from rinse to spot free, and maybe this will prevent it.

I don't plan on moving functions to a separate gun. I might if I ever build a wash, but my customers push quarters through tape over a coin slot and spend minutes wrenching on the dial trying to make the foam come out of the brush. I don't think they'll do well if I move where stuff comes out.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

MEP have you ever verified your concerns between setup one and two regarding the aid in foaming? Maybe try one of each set up in side by side bays and see if there is any less foam in set up two. I'm with you, but it may be one of those things where it actually has little to no benefit like you thought it would for all those years.

 

[MEP001]

I was more hoping someone else has gone through this before and tried the different setups, but if no one replies as such I'll just have to do it myself.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

If you think about, it probably doesn’t make a difference. All of my automatics are similar to your 2nd and 3rd set up and all foam fine. Some have foamers afterwards but a lot of mine don’t. I would build it whichever way is easier.

 

[washnshine]

It seems like the first setup would let you adjust the amount of air per product - so if you want more air on your wax and less on your presoak, you can do that. The air on the other setups would effect your all of low pressure options the same.

 

[MEP001]

If you think about, it probably doesn’t make a difference. All of my automatics are similar to your 2nd and 3rd set up and all foam fine. Some have foamers afterwards but a lot of mine don’t. I would build it whichever way is easier.

It may not make a difference in foaming since the products I use all foam well, but I've seen washes where one or more product spits and sputters instead of a steady flow of foam. Maybe that's been bad product.

 

[MEP001]

It seems like the first setup would let you adjust the amount of air per product - so if you want more air on your wax and less on your presoak, you can do that. The air on the other setups would effect your all of low pressure options the same.

There will still be separate air solenoids and adjustments, just one line which I'd have to split.

I'll probably just build one of each type and see which does best. I cringe every time I see a customer get a burst of tire cleaner when they want spot free which ends up on their car, which is my biggest concern. I think the last one will work best to prevent that.

 

[Kar B Kleen]

What check valves do you like to use on your set-up? Would you use the same one on all the set-ups? Could you post a link?

 

[washnshine]

I cringe every time I see a customer get a burst of tire cleaner when they want spot free which ends up on their car, which is my biggest concern. I think the last one will work best to prevent that.

I think I have seen washes that have a 2 -3 second delay between function selection and activation. It prevents quick start/stops on several functions as people spin the dial to whatever option they want to use. Once it’s in place for the 2-3 seconds, the function starts. Would that prevent the chemical bursts in the rinse water?

 

[MEP001]

What check valves do you like to use on your set-up? Would you use the same one on all the set-ups? Could you post a link?

Fluid Controls CV-100T | Stainless Steel Check Valve PTFE O-Ring

This Fluid Controls CV-100 check valve is made with stainless steel and has female 1/4" connections. Rated for 4 GPM and 3500 PSI.

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

I've been using these for a lot of years and have had very little trouble with them, usually minor leakback but never a catastrophic failure. The Teflon seal doesn't come off the poppet. I used the Buna-N version when they first came out, and those o-rings would fail.

 

[MEP001]

I think I have seen washes that have a 2 -3 second delay between function selection and activation. It prevents quick start/stops on several functions as people spin the dial to whatever option they want to use. Once it’s in place for the 2-3 seconds, the function starts. Would that prevent the chemical bursts in the rinse water?

Not necessarily, the problem usually comes from using tire cleaner/presoak then going to a high pressure function and then running out of time, or there being a 2-second delay for the spot free pump coming on. Pressure and some chemical stays trapped behind the tire/presoak check valve and it gets into the flow when it has the chance.

 

[2Biz]

Probably not the answer you are looking for, but I will answer based on the wording of the topic...I eliminated as many C/V's in the attic as I possibly could. I only have (4) left for SFR which tee's in above the bay...I could get rid of them if I wanted to tee-in inside the ER, but would take a few more seconds to get to the wand...Maybe when they start failing, I'll strongly consider it!

I have all LP TF and PS running through a foam gun, and FB is also LP..... All running without C/V's. I'm Not getting any younger to crawl through the attic to service failing C/V's...You sure have a lot of C/V's shown in your diagrams...

Sooo....I learned a long time ago, I have to work smarter, not harder!

Curious why you want wax to run at LP and assuming this is through the HP gun....

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Not necessarily, the problem usually comes from using tire cleaner/presoak then going to a high pressure function and then running out of time, or there being a 2-second delay for the spot free pump coming on. Pressure and some chemical stays trapped behind the tire/presoak check valve and it gets into the flow when it has the chance.

MEP I'm not following your logic on the burst of EC when they select Spot Free. I understand the 'trapped psi' you're referring to but I don't see how any one of those configurations will be better or worse in that regard. Going from rinse, wax or whatever to SF will essentially provide 2 seconds of no back pressure on all those LP functions no matter if the air is teed in before the checks or has its own check. What am I missing?

 

[MEP001]

Curious why you want wax to run at LP and assuming this is through the HP gun....

Three reasons. One is that I can run the wax much stronger without using more. The customer perception is better because at high pressure it barely foams, but at low pressure with air it foams a lot and coats better. Last is that I want to run high pressure soap, and the easiest way to have hot soap and cold rinse is to run wax at low pressure.

Yes, through the HP gun.