Spot Free Pressure

[Rfreeman]

What are you guys running for pressure on spot free rinse? Just got it up and running at another location and Im not even getting 75 psi at the top of the manifold. It's not impressive in the bay either.

I have a multistage pump Flint & Walling pump model PB1014C101.

At my other location I have a cat piston pump and get 400 PSI.

Anybody have recommendations on a good multi stage pump?

 

[OurTown]

At my other location I have a cat piston pump and get 400 PSI.

We are doing exactly this.

 

[semocarwasher]

Sounds like either a bad pump or air locked. I have seen rotation be backwards on the pump and get low pressure like that. Is this a new install?

 

[Rfreeman]

Sounds like either a bad pump or air locked. I have seen rotation be backwards on the pump and get low pressure like that. Is this a new install?

No its not a new install, the pump was already on the stand so I was kind of thinking a bad pump.

How does a pump get air locked?

If the rotation was backward would I even get this much pressure out of it?

This is my first time working with a multi stage pump for spot free distribution so not to familiar with it yet. Looking at the spec sheet max psi is 183 @2.3 gal/min.

 

[Blanco]

No its not a new install, the pump was already on the stand so I was kind of thinking a bad pump.

How does a pump get air locked?

If the rotation was backward would I even get this much pressure out of it?

This is my first time working with a multi stage pump for spot free distribution so not to familiar with it yet. Looking at the spec sheet max psi is 183 @2.3 gal/min.

That is a single phase pump. The rotation can not be backward. That only applies to three phase pumps.

Pumps can get air locked. If you pull off your outgoing hose and start the pump that will release any air lock if there is one. Then re-attach hose.

Most likely the pump is bad.

 

[Rfreeman]

So do you guys think I can get the 400 psi out of a single phase multi stage pump?

 

[Randy]

So do you guys think I can get the 400 psi out of a single phase multi stage pump?

I highly doubt it. You might have go with a Cat 310 if you want that much pressure. You could probably get 200 - 250 psi out of a multi-stage pump.

 

[Blanco]

So do you guys think I can get the 400 psi out of a single phase multi stage pump?

No. 200-250 MAX on a booster like Randy said. You don’t need anymore then that for spot free rinse. 400 psi is too high and also a waste of reject water. I can tell that’s a Jim Coleman pump stand On the front of the Blue RO plate it tells you not to exceeed 275 or 295 psi. I can’t remember which one.

 

[MEP001]

I've operated a wash that ran 450 PSI on the spot free with a Cat 390 pump. It does use a lot of water but customers love it. If you're reusing the RO reject it's cheaper than running rinse.

I'm now running 250 PSI with a Procon on a 3/4 HP motor which costs about $450, about half that of a multistage booster to get 180 PSI.

 

[Toms PTcarwash]

I am not sure why you would want to run your spot free at that high of a pressure?
I run mine at 150 psi for all SS bays and the auto wash.

 

[MEP001]

I run mine at 150 psi for all SS bays and the auto wash.

150 psi for SS bays sucks. When you're charging a premium for time, give a premium product.

 

[Blanco]

150 psi for SS bays sucks. When you're charging a premium for time, give a premium product.

You should practice what you preach and use that philosophy and start giving your customers lighting on cloudy days. One thread you complain about money for lighting your bays up. The next thread you want to waste water by giving customers a higher PSI spot free that 99% won't realize and is completely unnecessary. Ill bet not a single car wash manufacture would recommend you to run your spot free over 299 PSI. Its actually printed on ever JC self serve stand but hey what do they know. Even if you are reusing your RO reject water your customers are still "paying a premium". Don't they deserve simple lighting on overcast or rainy days? Also, if your customers loved your high PSI spot free so much then why did you opt to save a few hundred bucks by using a pro con pump at 250 psi over using the cat 390 at 450 psi?

 

[Toms PTcarwash]

I use 150 psi and always deliver water with under 5 ppm dissolved solids. It works great, and I get many complements from my customers about how much they like the spot free. My auto does not have a dryer and the cars dry spot free.
I'm not sure what you mean about charging a premium for the product. I charge the same per minute as all other products, but the spot free actually costs me more than the others?
My RO reject goes down the drain.

 

[MEP001]

You should practice what you preach and use that philosophy and start giving your customers lighting on cloudy days.

I don't have customers on cloudy days, I have freeloaders leaving car parts and empty oil containers. And I mentioned in the other thread that the roof is high and open so there's plenty of light no matter how overcast it is.

Ill bet not a single car wash manufacture would recommend you to run your spot free over 299 PSI. Its actually printed on ever JC self serve stand but hey what do they know.

One, that's 190 psi, and two, it's on the production side. It's because the membrane housing is rated to 200 PSI and they give another 10 PSI safety.

Also, if your customers loved your high PSI spot free so much then why did you opt to save a few hundred bucks by using a pro con pump at 250 psi over using the cat 390 at 450 psi?

I didn't build the car wash. If I had, I would have used a Cat 390 and run it at 450 PSI. And it's not "a few hundred bucks" difference, it's at least $3,000.

 

[MEP001]

I use 150 psi and always deliver water with under 5 ppm dissolved solids. It works great, and I get many complements from my customers about how much they like the spot free.

Imagine the compliments you'd get if you ran it at 250, or even 450.

...the spot free actually costs me more than the others?

It doesn't, unless you're counting the cost of replacing your membranes every year. If you ran them "as recommended" they should last five to ten years.

 

[Blanco]

One, that's 190 psi, and two, it's on the production side. It's because the membrane housing is rated to 200 PSI and they give another 10 PSI safety.

You are right about that. It has been a long week.

 

[MEP001]

It has been a long week.

I know what you mean, I hurt my back again on Monday, and I just gotta keep working.

 

[MEP001]

So do you guys think I can get the 400 psi out of a single phase multi stage pump?

The specs are all over the place, one says 362 psi, one says 232 psi. There might be one that can deliver 400.

Grundfos 96084096 CR 5-2 A-B-A-E-HQQE 1PH 0.75HP TEFC 60HZ

The 96084096 is produced by Grundfos and is described as a Grundfos 96084096 CR 5-2 A-B-A-E-HQQE 1PH 0.75HP TEFC 60HZ

www.mrosupply.com

 

[Greg Pack]

I had a big grundfos 3 ph at one wash and that pump was awesome. Plenty of pressure and no noisy pump.

I've got a pur clean spot free system at one wash that came with a multi stage booster pump. I removed the solenoid manifold and put on individual GC solenoids and the flow greatly improved. Apprarently the small orifices in the manifold had a larger impact on flow than I thought it would. I will definitely use a muli stage pump when my 390 goes out on my Coleman system. I feel like 200psi is adequte assuming big orifices, at least 3/8" line, and not too much distance to travel.

 

[Rfreeman]

I've operated a wash that ran 450 PSI on the spot free with a Cat 390 pump. It does use a lot of water but customers love it. If you're reusing the RO reject it's cheaper than running rinse.

I'm now running 250 PSI with a Procon on a 3/4 HP motor which costs about $450, about half that of a multistage booster to get 180 PSI.

What model procon are you running? Im contemplating going back with a multistage pump, going to a piston pump like at my other location, or a procon option you mentioned.

Me and my guys could weld a base at the bottom of the stand for a piston pump and motor but doing this before we installed the stand would have been the way to go.