Looking for a education on this part for my D&S 5000

[Strava]

Hey Carwash gurus, I was hoping one of you would be kind enough to give me an education. I'm still learning.
So, what exactly is this thing? I think that I found it on Kleen Rites website and it says it's a
General Pump ZH2820 Single Bypass Brass Trapped Pressure Unloader - 4500 PSI, 52.8 GPM
But I'm not 100% sure. Right now it's spitting out of a small hole when the iba is operating. I try to keep my pump floor room dry and lately it's been wet because of the spray from this hole. If it's a problem or the beginning of a problem I want to catch it now before it gets worse. Any advice?

 

[MEP001]

It's this one:

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-63842-general-pump-yr5221-brass-regulating-valve-53-gpm-2200-psi.aspx

Same dimensions as the part number you posted, just runs at a lower pressure. I recommend this one instead:

General Pump YBRV5325 | Balanced Pressure Regulator

The General Pump YBRV5325 relief valve is a brass body regulator that prevents drastic unexpected increases in pressure within your car wash water system.

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

Less than half the price, lasts longer in my experience, can be rebuilt in place. You would need a 1" tee, a 1" to 3/4" reducing nipple, and a street elbow to angle the bypass down. The older units used this regulator and they had far fewer problems.

 

[Strava]

Hey MEP, ty for the advice. A few more questions if you don't mind.
How do I know when mine has gone bad?
Do I adjust the pressure with the bolt on the top?
Is the pressure too high causing it to come out of the little hole in the bottom red circle?

 

[MEP001]

How do I know when mine has gone bad?

Either when it leaks or when it doesn't properly regulate the pressure.

Do I adjust the pressure with the bolt on the top?

Yes.

Is the pressure too high causing it to come out of the little hole in the bottom red circle?

The pressure should never exceed 1200 PSI. That's the maximum rating of the pump and of some of the solenoids that switch where the spray comes from.

The hole is to let it leak when the seals go bad and not let the water get into the spring and cause it to rust.

 

[Blanco]

You do not need to purchase a new regulator when it leaks from that little hole. A simple repair kit will fix it and it can be rebuilt in place.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-9992-repair-kit-for-gpu5221-general-pump-unloader.aspx

 

[Strava]

You do not need to purchase a new regulator when it leaks from that little hole. A simple repair kit will fix it and it can be rebuilt in place.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-9992-repair-kit-for-gpu5221-general-pump-unloader.aspx

That's great because Kleen right has the part on backorder lol, you saved me a few hundred lol, I owe you a beer.

 

[MEP001]

In my experience, once the regulator has worn to the point it leaks, it won't hold a kit for long, and that kit is almost half the price of the regulator I linked.

 

[Blanco]

In my experience, once the regulator has worn to the point it leaks, it won't hold a kit for long, and that kit is almost half the price of the regulator I linked.

The only thing worn in the regulator is the seals. Thats why they make repair kits in the first place. You don't change your seals before it leaks do you? lol I have 6 of those regulators in service. Once they start to leak I put in a repair kit and there good for a few years. I also use the SMALLER regulator you listed on my booster pumps for chemicals. Works great for that application.

The regulator you listed has completely different sized ports and also only a inlet and a bypass. The regulator that he already is using has a inlet, outlet, and bypass. He would have to completely replumb his system. All new fittings and hose.

I think paying $77 for a repair kit that can be installed in about 5 minutes in place sounds like a better option then buying a regulator twice the price that is too small, new fittings, new hoses, and spending hours having to re plumb his system.

 

[MEP001]

The only thing worn in the regulator is the seals. Thats why they make repair kits in the first place.

The surfaces upon which the seals sit erode.

You don't change your seals before it leaks do you?

It's better to rebuild it before it leaks than to wait for it to leak. If I had to use the unloader, I would absolutely rebuild it on a schedule before it leaks. I wouldn't pay $77 for the kit either, I'd just replace all the o-rings.

I also use the SMALLER regulator you listed on my booster pumps for chemicals.

The one I linked is not SMALLER. It's a balanced pressure regulator rated for the same pressure and flow, it's just not an unloader which is a misapplication for this unit. At no time does the D&S 5000 run the pump with all outlets closed.

The regulator you listed has completely different sized ports and also only a inlet and a bypass. The regulator that he already is using has a inlet, outlet, and bypass. He would have to completely replumb his system. All new fittings and hose.

I listed the few inexpensive fittings he would need. Putting a 1" tee in place of the unloader maintains full flow plumbing into the same outlet hose, and the regulator is able to flow into the same bypass hose as before.

I think paying $77 for a repair kit that can be installed in about 5 minutes in place sounds like a better option then buying a regulator twice the price that is too small, new fittings, new hoses, and spending hours having to re plumb his system.

It's a 15 minute job, I've done it numerous times. It takes longer to rebuild the unloader which is very difficult to do in place even when you know what you're doing. The unloaders last 2-3 years, the balanced pressure regulator controls the pressure more accurately, responds faster, and in my experience lasts about ten years. I used to service these units for a living, and when they changed over to the unloader I got lots of complaints about them not lasting, so to keep customers happy I went back to the regulator the older units used.

 

[Blanco]

The surfaces upon which the seals sit erode.

Never have I came across one that leaked after it was rebuilt.

The one I linked is not SMALLER. It's a balanced pressure regulator rated for the same pressure and flow.

It is smaller. I never said it wasn't rated for the same pressure. Its inlet port is 1/4" smaller and its bypass port is 1/2" smaller.

It's just not an unloader which is a misapplication for this unit. At no time does the D&S 5000 run the pump with all outlets closed

And if a solenoid fails to open?

It's a 15 minute job, I've done it numerous times.

Ya like you said you did this for a living. Strava is new and I'm sure not too exited about re plumbing his pump stand when he can just change some seals.

It takes longer to rebuild the unloader which is very difficult to do in place even when you know what you're doing.

All you do with the unloader is change the seals I'm not sure what so difficult about that.



Bottom line is Strava has a problem with the regulator leaking. The cheapest and fastest way to solve that is to just rebuild the regulator that the manufacturer decided was the best choice to use. Not purchase a new one and re plumb his pump stand for a leak that a few o rings will fix.

 

[Strava]

@ Blanco & MEP001
I want to sincerely thank you both for offering tech advice and support it's very much appreciated. Guys like you two make this community great.
The old owner of my wash saved the old valve that was replaced a few years ago by the one that's leaking now. I took it to a high-pressure hose and fitting company that services the oil and gas industry in my area and for $25.00 they replaced all the o-rings and springs. I'm going to try to replace it tonight. I'm a nonmechanical guy learning a lot from you two so thank you again. I'll give an update tomorrow on how my fix job goes.
: )

 

[Blanco]

Sounds good sir. You need any help just post it here.

 

[MEP001]

It is smaller. I never said it wasn't rated for the same pressure. Its inlet port is 1/4" smaller and its bypass port is 1/2" smaller.

You mount it on a tee so it only has to flow what is necessary to work. The regulator doesn't have almost 50 gpm running through it all the time like it does with the unloader. I believe that's part of why the regulator lasts so much longer.

And if a solenoid fails to open?

These units have one bank that doesn't have a solenoid.

Strava is new and I'm sure not too exited about re plumbing his pump stand when he can just change some seals.

It's not replumbing the stand. It's removing the unloader and putting a 1" tee in its place and screwing the regulator on top.

The cheapest and fastest way to solve that is to just rebuild the regulator that the manufacturer decided was the best choice to use.

Short term, yes. Long term, IMO the regulator swap works better and lasts much longer. If you've worked on these things you'd understand why what the manufacturer decided to use isn't necessarily the best thing. I had a customer change the regulator on the pump and then call me to come figure out why it kept tripping the breaker. Someone had cranked it all the way down and it was running about 2200 PSI. There's no reason for the pulleys to have been sized for it to reach that kind of pressure, but there you go.

 

[Strava]

Everything went well on my install last night & I'm back up and running with no leak. : )

My next question to you guys is this when people select my top wash and get the undercarriage feature my main pump sounds like it's not getting enough water from my booster pump. I want to start with replacing the solenoid valve. The numbers on the solenoid indicate that it's a DEMA, 24v, 50-60hz 474P, M.R.P. 1500, M.O.P.D 1200 So I go to Kleen rite looking for that solenoid, but each valve they have listed indicates different #s at the end of the 474P, for example, 474P.3, 474P.4 or 474.3D Which valve should I order?

 

[MEP001]

474P.3 is what you need. 474P.4 is 24V DC, 474P.3D is probably a DIN style (plug-in) coil.

It's strange that the plate says MOPD of 1200 PSI, because that is NOT a high pressure solenoid.

 

[Strava]

Of course, they have 4 different types of 474P.3 Which one?
https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/search.aspx?searchterm=474P.3

 

[MEP001]

It's just the 474P.3, 24V AC coil.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-4449-dema-474p-3-brass-1-2-in-solenoid-valve-buna-seal-24vac-coil.aspx

One of the four in your search is a DIN coil, the other two are normally open.

I don't think it's the solenoid that's causing your issue. The main pump gets all its water from the main tank, not any solenoid. I believe that solenoid in your pictures is for the presoak application on the gantry. Is it sitting on the booster pump with the supply coming from the presoak tank?

 

[Strava]

https://youtube.com/shorts/Cu2Qcw2gqvI?feature=share Here is a video of what it's doing. What do you think? You'll have to turn the volume up a little.

 

[MEP001]

It looks like there's a valve that switches between the tank and spot free. It might be bad. It's not one I've ever seen before, so I can't tell you if it could be the problem, but it does sound like the pump isn't getting water.

 

[Strava]

It's not one I've ever seen before

I don't believe that! I'm going to ask some dumb questions, please excuse them because I just don't know.