Vacuum safety / Is this an industry wide concern?

[Earl Weiss]

Don't cut the power when servicing a vacuum but ridicule a kid that sticks things in an electrical outlet?
You wanna explain the difference there sparky?

Your request for an explanation speaks volumes. I could video myself changing Vac Motors with the power on and you could video yourself putting a 2 prong metal object with one prong into each side of and electrical outlet and the explanation would be clear - but don't do that.

 

[Damoni88]

If someone is stupid enough to do this then that's on them. Also if it's a little one then they are not watching their kids period.

 

[Undertaker II]

If you are truly worried about the gap (which I would be), grab some wire mesh and build yourself a guard that fits around the vacuum canister and rests on the adapter and put some pop rivets or screws in it to hold it in place. That would be a lot easier then telling everyone else on here how wrong they are!

 

[traveler17]

…and has this actually happened?? Or is this a what if. I’ve been doing this since 2000 and have never heard of this happening. If it has and happened often I’m sure manufacturers would change the build on their vacuums and address the “problem “. “What if” could be pointed at a lot more things on my properties than a vacuum.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

How is the bottom of a vacuum motor a danger? Is the 13 year old going to disassemble the motor and stick their tongue in the hole?
You better make sure to never prop open your equipment room door…a toddler could wander in there and get dismembered by a motor pulley or guzzle some tire cleaner.

 

[MEP001]

How is the bottom of a vacuum motor a danger?

That impeller isn't very strong, but it's sharp and spins fast. I kept finding the top doors on my vacs open. They were only held closed by a zip tie. I finally put padlocks on them. A 10 year old could stand on the island and reach fingers into that impeller. I know there's a screen you can put under the motor, but most of mine are missing. Also Adam Savage from Mythbusters, a presumably intelligent adult, got his lip sucked into one on camera.

You better make sure to never prop open your equipment room door…a toddler could wander in there and get dismembered by a motor pulley or guzzle some tire cleaner.

Several times I've had a toddler not watched by their parent walk behind me into the equipment room. The first time it happened I basically commented such to the child's father when I saw the kid walk back out. He got nasty and said "Well, you should keep the door shut!" Also I got an after-hours call once from a customer looking for a MSDS because his employee saw a Gatorade can that was being used to scoop bright orange powdered tire cleaner and mixed himself some to drink.

 

[Dan kamsickas]

...

You purchased the incorrect part for your model of vacuum. Whoever sold it to you was incorrect and should be contacted and told it's the incorrect one. To claim either is a design flaw is simply not true. Legitimate manufacturers have their vacuums test regularly and then repeatedly inspected(usually quarterly but it can vary) by outside, certified testing facilities.

Here's a perfect example of my point: There are several 110V aftermarket motors available for vacuums. They vary wildly on specs. We spec our units at max 10amp per motor. The motors we use run right around 7 amps with an inrush current of around 8.5ish amps. I lost count of how many times I've had operators call because they are tripping breakers, blowing fuses, burning up timers, etc. When I find out the model of motor and look up the specs it's nearly always some cheepo motor that actually runs at 9amps but the inrush is approaching 12+. The operator purchased the wrong motor trying to save some money. The place they bought them from sold them the incorrect part for the application. Neither is a design flaw of the vacuum. It's two parties not making the correct decisions.

I got an after-hours call once from a customer looking for a MSDS because his employee saw a Gatorade can that was being used to scoop bright orange powdered tire cleaner and mixed himself some to drink.

Obviously, a poor design by the manufacturer. The should have known someone would do this. They should have used a different color and clearly label the container "THIS IS NOT GATORADE"

 

[MEP001]

Obviously, a poor design by the manufacturer. The should have known someone would do this. They should have used a different color and clearly label the container "THIS IS NOT GATORADE"

I'm assuming this is a joke, but just to be clear the can was a plastic one that had powdered Gatorade mix in it. The customer's employee saw the can in an open box of powdered tire cleaner and somehow thought it was Gatorade mix. The point of the anecdote was that people can be f***ing stupid and we have to at least try to protect them from themselves. Use an old rat poison container to scoop your tire cleaner, then at least you have no liability.

 

[Dan kamsickas]

I'm assuming this is a joke, but just to be clear the can was a plastic one that had powdered Gatorade mix in it. The customer's employee saw the can in an open box of powdered tire cleaner and somehow thought it was Gatorade mix. The point of the anecdote was that people can be f***ing stupid and we have to at least try to protect them from themselves. Use an old rat poison container to scoop your tire cleaner, then at least you have no liability.

Its was a snarky joke. We were actually making the same point. People can be f***ing moronic.

 

[edredtop]

…and has this actually happened?? Or is this a what if. I’ve been doing this since 2000 and have never heard of this happening. If it has and happened often I’m sure manufacturers would change the build on their vacuums and address the “problem “. “What if” could be pointed at a lot more things on my properties than a vacuum.

Great question!
It IS a "what if" because it's a product being offered that seems to create a design change away from how the vacuums were originally built. (from a 20" dome to a 24" dome creating the gap) Where an operator's vacuum had been safe for years, if they unwittingly changed out to a larger dome because of how it's being marketed (with the adapters), they might create the ingredients for an injury or worse.
The purpose of the thread was to inform and get input from a large group of operators.
I could be totally wrong, but definitely appreciate the responses from everyone.
My concern is for our customer's safety, to help maintain our industry's culture of safety, and to help mitigate fellow operator's liabilities.

If you're curious about the product I'm referring to, here's THE LINK.

This info is important enough to post again....
This is what's at stake if a person accidentally touches an open circuit.
The following post is from an electrical contractor's forum that I had previously linked to:

"We receive quarterly formal safety training. Below is a copy of a handout on the effect of electricity on the body. The best protection against electrocution is to deenergize the equipment you are working on, but if that is not possible then the use of rubber gloves becomes very important."
How Electrical Current Affects the Human Body
Three primary factors affect the severity of the shock a person receives when he or she is a part of an electrical circuit:
� Amount of current flowing through the body (measured in amperes).
� Path of the current through the body.
� Length of time the body is in the circuit.
Other factors that may affect the severity of the shock are:
� The voltage of the current.
� The presence of moisture in the environment.
� The phase of the heart cycle when the shock occurs.
� The general health of the person prior to the shock.
Effects can range from a barely perceptible tingle to severe burns and immediate cardiac arrest. Although it is not known the exact injuries that result from any given amperage, the following table demonstrates this general relationship for a 60-cycle, hand-to-foot shock of one second's duration:

Current level
(in milliamperes) Probable effect on human body

1 mA Perception level. Slight tingling sensation. Still dangerous under certain conditions.

5 mA Slight shock felt; not painful but disturbing. Average individual can let go. However, strong involuntary reactions to shocks in this range may lead to injuries.

6-30 mA Painful shock, muscular control is lost. This is called the freezing current or "let-go" range.

50-150 mA Extreme pain, respiratory arrest, severe muscular contractions. Individual cannot let go. Death is possible.

1000-4300 mA Ventricular fibrillation (the rhythmic pumping action of the heart ceases.) Muscular contraction and nerve damage occur. Death is most likely.

10,000 mA Cardiac arrest, severe burns and probable death

 

[Earl Weiss]

I am concerned about people letting kids wander the lot with cars traveling all around while they don't pay attention to them because they are vacuuming. For a child to reach under the dome and stick their hand in they would first have to climb up on the vacuum pedestal because the dome is 6.5 feet up in the air and this just does not happen.

 

[traveler17]

Great question!
It IS a "what if" because it's a product being offered that seems to create a design change away from how the vacuums were originally built. (from a 20" dome to a 24" dome creating the gap) Where an operator's vacuum had been safe for years, if they unwittingly changed out to a larger dome because of how it's being marketed (with the adapters), they might create the ingredients for an injury or worse.
The purpose of the thread was to inform and get input from a large group of operators.
I could be totally wrong, but definitely appreciate the responses from everyone.
My concern is for our customer's safety, to help maintain our industry's culture of safety, and to help mitigate fellow operator's liabilities.

If you're curious about the product I'm referring to, here's THE LINK.

This info is important enough to post again....
This is what's at stake if a person accidentally touches an open circuit.
The following post is from an electrical contractor's forum that I had previously linked to:

"We receive quarterly formal safety training. Below is a copy of a handout on the effect of electricity on the body. The best protection against electrocution is to deenergize the equipment you are working on, but if that is not possible then the use of rubber gloves becomes very important."
How Electrical Current Affects the Human Body
Three primary factors affect the severity of the shock a person receives when he or she is a part of an electrical circuit:
� Amount of current flowing through the body (measured in amperes).
� Path of the current through the body.
� Length of time the body is in the circuit.
Other factors that may affect the severity of the shock are:
� The voltage of the current.
� The presence of moisture in the environment.
� The phase of the heart cycle when the shock occurs.
� The general health of the person prior to the shock.
Effects can range from a barely perceptible tingle to severe burns and immediate cardiac arrest. Although it is not known the exact injuries that result from any given amperage, the following table demonstrates this general relationship for a 60-cycle, hand-to-foot shock of one second's duration:

Current level
(in milliamperes) Probable effect on human body

1 mA Perception level. Slight tingling sensation. Still dangerous under certain conditions.

5 mA Slight shock felt; not painful but disturbing. Average individual can let go. However, strong involuntary reactions to shocks in this range may lead to injuries.

6-30 mA Painful shock, muscular control is lost. This is called the freezing current or "let-go" range.

50-150 mA Extreme pain, respiratory arrest, severe muscular contractions. Individual cannot let go. Death is possible.

1000-4300 mA Ventricular fibrillation (the rhythmic pumping action of the heart ceases.) Muscular contraction and nerve damage occur. Death is most likely.

10,000 mA Cardiac arrest, severe burns and probable death

I can understand a concern for safety but a kid putting his hand under the dome of the vacuum is at the bottom of the list. My concern “which Earl Weiss” stated is parents not watching their kids while vacuuming. Do you know how many times I’ve looked at video of kids running through the IN Bays pushing the arms , full on sprinting as they do it. Countless other things. The fact is unless you have someone living on your property there is nothing you could do. Kid could sip the Tire cleaner off the ground because he thought it was kool aid. To many “what ifs to list “

 

[Dan kamsickas]

Great question!
It IS a "what if" because it's a product being offered that seems to create a design change away from how the vacuums were originally built. (from a 20" dome to a 24" dome creating the gap) Where an operator's vacuum had been safe for years, if they unwittingly changed out to a larger dome because of how it's being marketed (with the adapters), they might create the ingredients for an injury or worse.
The purpose of the thread was to inform and get input from a large group of operators.
I could be totally wrong, but definitely appreciate the responses from everyone.
My concern is for our customer's safety, to help maintain our industry's culture of safety, and to help mitigate fellow operator's liabilities.

At the end of the day, you purchased domes that were not in the original design of the vacuum. If they are clearly listed as 24" and the original domes were 20" simple math would tell you you're going to create a 2" gap.

 

[MEP001]

For a child to reach under the dome and stick their hand in they would first have to climb up on the vacuum pedestal because the dome is 6.5 feet up in the air and this just does not happen.

It does at mine because the Americans with Disabilities Act requires that the coin acceptor not be more than 48" from the ground, so instead of having one handicapped island it was decided that they all be about 2' tall.

 

[Earl Weiss]

It does at mine because the Americans with Disabilities Act requires that the coin acceptor not be more than 48" from the ground, so instead of having one handicapped island it was decided that they all be about 2' tall.

Are these same kids reaching under the Vac Domes?

 

[MEP001]

Are these same kids reaching under the Vac Domes?

No, the gap is too small, but if it were big enough they absolutely could and would.

 

[ACTcarwashlover]

There’s very few manufactures that build to almost 100% finger safe The reason why I say almost, because it’s either nearly impossible From a design point or an outer cover is used to prevent Human to electrical contact, A good example of finger safe or very close to that, is my Vacuum here, Where the only Terminals that are physically exposed (not inside the white electrical box) Are energised at 24 V AC, (the emergency stop, the power light, and the contacts for the coin acceptor switch

 

[edredtop]

Beautiful design!

 

[ACTcarwashlover]

Well thank you, the only annoyance is when the collection bag bursts but that’s as it needs a thick walled bag, plus it probably won’t explode when you suck up gasoline too, and it has a safety filter to make sure you don’t get dirt in the turbine

 

[edredtop]

Well thank you, the only annoyance is when the collection bag bursts but that’s as it needs a thick walled bag, plus it probably won’t explode when you suck up gasoline too, and it has a safety filter to make sure you don’t get dirt in the turbine View attachment 7977

That's probably the most well thought out design I've ever seen on a commercial vac.
Is the hose inlet between the white sock and the black clean-out bag?