New chemistry that I almost passed on - then WOW

[jubalr]

Is that MSRP on chemical?

I take my total spend on chemicals and divide it by cars washed. Same with utilities, which is running about $1.21pc.

 

[ShinePro]

Wow, that seems really high. I have a 2 bay with 1 touchless and 1 soft touch. I'm running at $.54 per car combined for both IBAs.

$.54 for both presoaks-triple foam- ceramics- drying agent-graphene-everything???

When I said 11% - that includes everything
Start to finish
Just to be clear

 

[thegoat999]

$.54 for both presoaks-triple foam- ceramics- drying agent-graphene-everything???

When I said 11% - that includes everything
Start to finish
Just to be clear

What does your top pkg have?

With cheap chemical, 2 presoak, 1 light layer of trifoam then a wax im sure 53c is doable, doubt he is using ceramic or Graphene

 

[ShinePro]

What does your top pkg have?

With cheap chemical, 2 presoak, 1 light layer of trifoam then a wax im sure 53c is doable, doubt he is using ceramic or Graphene

Top wash?

it has everything

This thread was started 2 months ago talking about hi quality new products
Since then I have tested 3 more new items.
I m really looking forward to the next year

I m not going to entertain discussions about how cheap we can be

 

[thegoat999]

Top wash?

it has everything

This thread was started 2 months ago talking about hi quality new products
Since then I have tested 3 more new items.
I m really looking forward to the next year

I m not going to entertain discussions about how cheap we can be

I was just interested in what other chemicals you use

I'm in the midst of building my own carwash and I liked the idea of scrapping carnauba and using Graphene/ceramic passes instead which is why I asked.

Any of those other chemicals you've tested worth anything?

 

[jubalr]

What does your top pkg have?

With cheap chemical, 2 presoak, 1 light layer of trifoam then a wax im sure 53c is doable, doubt he is using ceramic or Graphene

Yes, that is everything chemical related. After my new Oasis equipment was installed, I spent 6 months evaluating different manuf chemicals on the basis that I wanted the best end result for the customer. The end result is I get 8 chemicals from 3 different suppliers that includes:
Hi PH Presoak
PH Booster (for the touchless side)
Ultra Low PH soap (used as brush lube and white tri-foam
Low PH Tri Foam (2 colors + white)
Tire Cleaner
Drying Agent
Ceramic (Best I have found and customers love it is from Arcadian)

End result is an excellent product with no eyebrows from the touchless and incredible shine from the ceramic. So much so that the local funeral home has a fleet account and run all there black vehicles through the touchless.

2022 chemical spend was $8663 and over 16k vehicles washed

 

[ShinePro]

Fair enough!

Since my original testing of Plazma (hi ph)
I have tested Liftoff ( low ph)
Now using both of those!

Then tested Zenith ( graphene)
I have been using Nova (ceramic) for 18 months- great product!

The only reason I m trying Zenith is that the new tunnel next door - their top wash is called “Graphene Extreme” @ $25.

I will say this about graphene
Its not showy. But it really helps dry the car if your blowers are just average. Which most IBA’s that I have seen are.
And the cars shine like crazy!

My latest testing has been with Prism - a ceramic based triple foam
I have 3 gal of carnuba left to use
Will never order any more!!!!!
I am replacing it with Prism ( gold color) in the foaming bar.

Customers will not notice any change from previous passes and it will better prep the car for ceramic applications and costs less. Everbody loves the foam bar

So I am ready to call the sign guy and the paystation folks to get all this done.
New top wash package will go like this on a Razor

Plazma - hi ph
Liftoff - lo ph
Rinse
Triple foam
A light rinse- flex pass
Prism - foam bar
Rinse
Zenith - arch pass
Nova - arch pass
Spot free rinse

My last bit of advice is get plenty of tech assistance.
I have my own titration kit and use it a lot
It takes quit a bit of titration and draw testing to get all this to work together right.

 

[washnshine]

I’m going to date myself, but in 1988 I was working at a self serve with a southern pride turbo wash touchless automatic. The owner calculated that he was spending $1 per car - in chemicals and water for the touchless. Considering our basic wash was $4 and top wash was $7, I’d say we’ve come a long way with efficiency, hyper concentrates etc.!

 

[ShinePro]

No kidding
Who ever thought we would pay $3000. For a drum of high end ceramic or such, and it would last for 7000 cars.

Thats why I told the Wash World folks in Vegas that everyone isnt on the same page.
You all are developing new gadgets to apply more stuff
And they Chemical suppliers are making stuff to apply less and easier.

 

[washnshine]

Right. And the cars getting that ceramic are paying $20 for that package.

 

[Greg Pack]

I think price is an issue and should be discussed. I'm not saying to compromise on cleaning to save .10 per car, but there are some expensive products out there that don't clean as well as cheaper formulas.

The whole chemical thing is always interesting, but cleaning is regional and quite frankly subjective. Can't tell you how many times someone has told me they've found the secret sauce, only to be disappointed after trying it. But always willing to try when I have the time.

Ph Boosters are crazy cheap and make a huge difference in cleaning performance. Most all presoaks I have tried have their effetiveness dirrectly tied to the level of alkalinity they have. I knew one of the owners of a pretty large tunnel company (20+ locations at the time)and he told me if they could buy dawn dish washing liquid by the drum they would mix it with sodium hydroxide and make it their tire cleaner. Most boosters are a blend of sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide, some are diluted with water. Mfgs. often charge $20/gallon plus for this. I can buy a 55 gallon drum of sodium hydroxide from a local bulk supplier of industrial chemicals for about $8/gallon delivered, and have been doing that for at least 15 years.

The magic bullet for me will be a great cleaner at relatively low alkalinity. I clean well now but am frankly burning the dirt off the car. I will say the synergy presoak I tried a couple of months ago worked surprisingly well for such low alkalinity, but it did not outclean my boosted formula and cost twice as much to use as my blend. I'd pay $1/car for a 95% clean at a ph lower than 10.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Well said Greg. I’m always willing to try something new from a supplier when they say they’ve got an improved product. The hardest part is, like you said, subjective results. Unless you try something and the results simply smack you in the face and it is noticeably superior, it’s very hard to evaluate. The other part of that equation is that what they want you to try usually comes at a higher cost per car, which would be fine for obviously cleaner cars, not marginally cleaner.

 

[thegoat999]

I think price is an issue and should be discussed. I'm not saying to compromise on cleaning to save .10 per car, but there are some expensive products out there that don't clean as well as cheaper formulas.

The whole chemical thing is always interesting, but cleaning is regional and quite frankly subjective. Can't tell you how many times someone has told me they've found the secret sauce, only to be disappointed after trying it. But always willing to try when I have the time.

Ph Boosters are crazy cheap and make a huge difference in cleaning performance. Most all presoaks I have tried have their effetiveness dirrectly tied to the level of alkalinity they have. I knew one of the owners of a pretty large tunnel company (20+ locations at the time)and he told me if they could buy dawn dish washing liquid by the drum they would mix it with sodium hydroxide and make it their tire cleaner. Most boosters are a blend of sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide, some are diluted with water. Mfgs. often charge $20/gallon plus for this. I can buy a 55 gallon drum of sodium hydroxide from a local bulk supplier of industrial chemicals for about $8/gallon delivered, and have been doing that for at least 15 years.

The magic bullet for me will be a great cleaner at relatively low alkalinity. I clean well now but am frankly burning the dirt off the car. I will say the synergy presoak I tried a couple of months ago worked surprisingly well for such low alkalinity, but it did not outclean my boosted formula and cost twice as much to use as my blend. I'd pay $1/car for a 95% clean at a ph lower than 10.

On the same note it's kind of surprising that the car wash industry doesn't have independent reviewers that review chemicals, machinery etc in order to improve competitiveness and prices like many other industries have

 

[Greg Pack]

On the same note it's kind of surprising that the car wash industry doesn't have independent reviewers that review chemicals, machinery etc in order to improve competitiveness and prices like many other industries have

Goes back to extreme regionality. My old service guy covered from the TN. State line to the Florida panhandle. He said he could go to the panhandle and run his products weaker and still get a cleaner car than he could in my area.

 

[Roz]

Fair enough!

Since my original testing of Plazma (hi ph)
I have tested Liftoff ( low ph)
Now using both of those!

Then tested Zenith ( graphene)
I have been using Nova (ceramic) for 18 months- great product!

The only reason I m trying Zenith is that the new tunnel next door - their top wash is called “Graphene Extreme” @ $25.

I will say this about graphene
Its not showy. But it really helps dry the car if your blowers are just average. Which most IBA’s that I have seen are.
And the cars shine like crazy!

My latest testing has been with Prism - a ceramic based triple foam
I have 3 gal of carnuba left to use
Will never order any more!!!!!
I am replacing it with Prism ( gold color) in the foaming bar.

Customers will not notice any change from previous passes and it will better prep the car for ceramic applications and costs less. Everbody loves the foam bar

So I am ready to call the sign guy and the paystation folks to get all this done.
New top wash package will go like this on a Razor

Plazma - hi ph
Liftoff - lo ph
Rinse
Triple foam
A light rinse- flex pass
Prism - foam bar
Rinse
Zenith - arch pass
Nova - arch pass
Spot free rinse

My last bit of advice is get plenty of tech assistance.
I have my own titration kit and use it a lot
It takes quit a bit of titration and draw testing to get all this to work together right.

Who makes Prism and Zenith?
We use ChemQuest and have been experimenting with Plazma. Will try the LiftOff with our next order. Select and Release have been good but always looking to improve the wash outcome.

 

[ShinePro]

Who makes Prism and Zenith?
We use ChemQuest and have been experimenting with Plazma. Will try the LiftOff with our next order. Select and Release have been good but always looking to improve the wash outcome.

Chemquest

 

[ShinePro]

Well said Greg. I’m always willing to try something new from a supplier when they say they’ve got an improved product. The hardest part is, like you said, subjective results. Unless you try something and the results simply smack you in the face and it is noticeably superior, it’s very hard to evaluate. The other part of that equation is that what they want you to try usually comes at a higher cost per car, which would be fine for obviously cleaner cars, not marginally cleaner.

I have had my hands in a lot of different businesses. Still do!
Wash quality has been one of the toughest measurements to get a handle of.
My opinion is one thing.
But in the end it comes down to what my Customers say/think -while evaluating cost per car.