Hydrospray Rain Maker upgrades

[DaddyD]

Well let me just say im not sure if anyone is even running these old machine except for me but i see the towers are still on klean rite for sale. So i figured i would share.

I purchased this wash (my first and only) about a year ago and it was in need of some love. Im in western Pa so the first thing i wanted was automatic doors, but i quickly discovered that my old southern pride turbo aka the hydro spray rain maker would not easly accept them. It had an old PLC from the 90s. So after pricing some new wash units and have not alot of money, I decided to just do some modification to my old IBA.

First i took off those stupid spinning arms and built a spary bar with 13 nozzels. (The bottome two nozzels are turbo tips). This made the unit wash 1000% times better.

Send i found some doors but i couldnt tie them in so i ripped out the plc and put in a new allen bradley micro 850.

Replacing the plc made a huge difference to the functionality of that wash. Now the options are limitless. Because i also added a new HMI that i can run off my phone.

I think next im going to attempt pressure control with the HP pump. The motor is to old to accept a VFD and i dont have room for it so i may try a recirculation valve. This should allow all my functions to come from one pump.

I would love to see some comments of diffrent ideas to try. Or suggestion.

 

[DaddyD]

Forgot the HMI.

 

[washnshine]

Congratulations - you’ve done a lot in a short time!

 

[Keno]

That's impressive. Out of curiosity, what is your background? Looks very professional.

Do you have any before and after videos of your spraying setup?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Nice job! We are still running 3 Southern Pride Turbos which are essentially identical to the HydroSpray. Getting rid of the spinning sprays arms was a smart move. While they provided great coverage they were also the cause of the majority of problems. I can't see from your picture, but if you are still utilizing the floor tredle I would eliminate that and build a 'virtual tredle'. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with the one pump idea but I would suggest using a multistage booster pump to feed chemical injectors for all of your LP functions rather than trying to use a 28-35gpm pump.
The biggest thing is to not be afraid to charge a decent price just because the machine is old. You can definitely get $14 or more per wash out of that old oval track depending on your market.

 

[Keno]

Nice job! We are still running 3 Southern Pride Turbos which are essentially identical to the HydroSpray. Getting rid of the spinning sprays arms was a smart move. While they provided great coverage they were also the cause of the majority of problems. I can't see from your picture, but if you are still utilizing the floor tredle I would eliminate that and build a 'virtual tredle'. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with the one pump idea but I would suggest using a multistage booster pump to feed chemical injectors for all of your LP functions rather than trying to use a 28-35gpm pump.
The biggest thing is to not be afraid to charge a decent price just because the machine is old. You can definitely get $14 or more per wash out of that old oval track depending on your market.

How would you build a virtual treadle? Would be a nice upgrade for our mark vii machine

 

[washnshine]

My guess for the VFD on the hp pump is to be able to create a medium pressure pass that can rinse any foamy sealants or polishes, but not have to use the hp pump at full capacity. Full capacity would be reserved just for the cleaning stage after the presoak.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

My guess for the VFD on the hp pump is to be able to create a medium pressure pass that can rinse any foamy sealants or polishes, but not have to use the hp pump at full capacity. Full capacity would be reserved just for the cleaning stage after the presoak.

To use a VFD he would have to replace that 25 hp motor with one that is rated for drive use. Thats a lot of money and some heavy lifting for little benefit. His idea for a recirculation valve would be much easier, cheaper and effective. It would basically be a water saver pass, simply add another HP solenoid and a regulator plumbed back to the inlet or holding tank.

Keno, it depends as I'm not familiar with how the Mark II machine is set up. It just depends on the logic of the machine. I have built virtual tredles for our Southern Pride Turbos as well as our Oasis Typhoon. Each machine had small hurdles that needed to be overcome but it wasn't too complicated. In a nutshell you use two photobeams 24" apart. First beam, when broken gives you your stop input (tire pad replacement), Second beam gives you your back up input and kills the stop input. Timers and delays can accommodate for nuances of the machine.

 

[Greg Pack]

If you need a tech job you're hired! Did you have to write all new programming or were you able to access the ladder programming and copy?

However, Instead of all functions coming out of HP I would probably opt to convert to an injection system. based on what my unit uses a 3 HP multi stage booster pump would flow enough to do a Lava application. Would cost about 2K in parts for pump, contactors and an injection manifold.

 

[DaddyD]

That's impressive. Out of curiosity, what is your background? Looks very professional.

Do you have any before and after videos of your spraying setup?

No i did not take any videos of before but i can always go and take one now of it running.

Im a controls engineer. This kinda stuff is what i do for a living

 

[OurTown]

Im a controls engineer. This kinda stuff is what i d for a living

That makes sense and also why you spec'd out an Allen-Bradley PLC. Those were never on my radar when looking into PLCs.

 

[DaddyD]

Nice job! We are still running 3 Southern Pride Turbos which are essentially identical to the HydroSpray. Getting rid of the spinning sprays arms was a smart move. While they provided great coverage they were also the cause of the majority of problems. I can't see from your picture, but if you are still utilizing the floor tredle I would eliminate that and build a 'virtual tredle'. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with the one pump idea but I would suggest using a multistage booster pump to feed chemical injectors for all of your LP functions rather than trying to use a 28-35gpm pump.
The biggest thing is to not be afraid to charge a decent price just because the machine is old. You can definitely get $14 or more per wash out of that old oval track depending on your market.

I have 3 pumps currently.

High pressure 1300 psi

A very low pressure soap pump (60 psi)

And a medium pressure spot free pump. (250 psi)

What do you mean a virtual treadle? Like a photo eye?

You may be right about the multistage pump i just wasnt sure what the best play was.

 

[DaddyD]

I would do a VFD but i would have to replace the 25hp motor its not at all inverter rated

 

[DaddyD]

If you need a tech job you're hired! Did you have to write all new programming or were you able to access the ladder programming and copy?

However, Instead of all functions coming out of HP I would probably opt to convert to an injection system. based on what my unit uses a 3 HP multi stage booster pump would flow enough to do a Lava application. Would cost about 2K in parts for pump, contactors and an injection manifold.

Hahaha well thanks for the offer. I wrote the program all from scratch. That old direct logics plc was programmed via a cassette tap.


I thought lava was only for tunnels? When do you apply it?

 

[DaddyD]

That makes sense and also why you spec'd out an Allen-Bradley PLC. Those were never on my radar when looking into PLCs.

Allen bradley is extremely common in industrial applications. They last forever and allen bradley has a great support system. Are you thinking about upgrading your plc?

 

[Greg Pack]

I thought lava was only for tunnels? When do you apply it?

Not necessary but an option that could be added on automatics. it seems to be the most demanding of the GPM requirements of all the chemical functions. Most other functions can be done with a 2HP booster pump.

also I would wonder since the big cat pump is splash lubed and ok to run at low RPM. Seems like my memory bank thinks it can be run at low RPM by running it with higher level of oil. But overall To me it seems more cost efficient and simpler to just use a booster pump.

 

[PEI]

Impressive work.

Since you have made so many changes, controlling doors and virtual treadles would be easy. The doors just need outputs to simulate a button push on the door controller. A warning though, most door controllers are PNP and not NPN like most car wash PLC input cards. You may have to change the output signal to 24VDC+.

The virtual treadle for this type of machine would just require a pair of photo sensors tied to a couple of inputs. In theory you should be able to connect them in place of the stop and backup inputs you are currently using. Using photo eyes mounted with a transmitter and receiver on each side will prevent cross talk and eliminate the need for a costly multiplexor.

As far as using a VFD to operate one pump for all the functions, just don't do it. There are reasons why PDQ never did it again after the G5S.

 

[DaddyD]

Not necessary but an option that could be added on automatics. it seems to be the most demanding of the GPM requirements of all the chemical functions. Most other functions can be done with a 2HP booster pump.

also I would wonder since the big cat pump is splash lubed and ok to run at low RPM. Seems like my memory bank thinks it can be run at low RPM by running it with higher level of oil. But overall To me it seems more cost efficient and simpler to just use a booster pump.

I think an a lava arc would be really cool and my be work looking into unless it blinds the drivers when they pull in. I need to find someone already running one and see what they have to say about it.
The booster pump maybe the way to go. I actually have a general pump not a cat. It seems to be pretty old to but i cant complain at all about it.

 

[DaddyD]

Impressive work.

Since you have made so many changes, controlling doors and virtual treadles would be easy. The doors just need outputs to simulate a button push on the door controller. A warning though, most door controllers are PNP and not NPN like most car wash PLC input cards. You may have to change the output signal to 24VDC+.

The virtual treadle for this type of machine would just require a pair of photo sensors tied to a couple of inputs. In theory you should be able to connect them in place of the stop and backup inputs you are currently using. Using photo eyes mounted with a transmitter and receiver on each side will prevent cross talk and eliminate the need for a costly multiplexor.

As far as using a VFD to operate one pump for all the functions, just don't do it. There are reasons why PDQ never did it again after the G5S.

Ok so the eys are low to the ground and only detecting the tires?

This wash was so old it doesnt have a back up light if the customer overshoots the treadle switch it would just say stop and eventually fault out. I changed it to say please drive forward instead of stop and everyone has seemed to been figuring it out. Either way im going to make a new sign. But as far as eyes go. Im not sure if i can use them low to the ground. This machine has guide rails they keep the vehicles inside of where they need to be. If i remove the rails im affriad people will not stay inside the lines and will need more photo eys and more signage.

As far as inputs go pnp or npn or in my world we call them sinking and sourcing. The plc i choose can do both so im good to go on every type of switch even 24vac and 24vdc.


I got the one pump idea from the other bay in working on. I purchased a used kondor last year and have been installing it in my free time. The kondor just used one pump on a vfd. I guess we will see how it goes. I all put the same plc in the kondor. It should be up in running soon im working on plumbing now.

 

[PEI]

The photo eyes can be mounted to the wall and angled down to read the front of the vehicle. This is how PDQ and Wash World both accomplish this. You will have to figure the wall placement on where you want the front bumper rather than the tire. The eyes typically are 18-24 inches apart. The upper eyes need to be at least 36 inches off the floor and the lower needs to be about 6 inches off the floor. This will allow it to find the front bumper on a variety of different height vehicles.